For Logic

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For Logic

Postby SeekingFreedom » 13 Aug 2013, 18:46

Salam Mr Logic,

I have been reading your posts on the cult forum and I am not sure whether you are still an active user. The way you talk is so peaceful to read and i really enjoy the way you use humour to lighten up a conversation. The reason for my email is that I wanted to know whether you are still in the same situation you were in before? Meaning are you still in the middle of being an ahmadi and non ahmadi.

I am in exactly the same situation as you were in, my whole family is ahmadi but i am at a stage where i am looking for answers so i wanted to know what your situation is currently.

I am not sure whether it is safe to email you, im a bit scared of ip addresses being tracked and accounts hacked so I pray this post reaches.

Waslam.
SeekingFreedom
 
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Re: For Logic

Postby Zohaib » 14 Aug 2013, 09:50

Seeking Freedom,

I am not sure whether Mr Logic is active now , but dont worry about your identity. no one can trace you from the IP address, since this Forum is not owned by any Murabi of ahmediya .. ;) :lol: so do ask your question openly, and seek for the truth, it is very hard decision for any common ahmedia to leave this cult because they bounded them into a relation where no body can easily escape .

Regards
Zohaib
Zohaib
 
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Re: For Logic

Postby logic » 29 Aug 2013, 01:25

Walaikum Salaam Brother / Sister Seeking Freedom,

Firstly I would like to apologise for my late response to your post, I have been having some personal problems of late.

Yes, is the answer to your first question that I am still an active user - this website has been such an eye opener from day one since I came here. I am glad that you enjoy reading what I have to write because it I enjoy writing it too. It is like a release on a public and personal level. I sometimes type stuff and read it back and start arguing with myself about what I should and should not write! I know there are boundaries for me to keep too not just because of the position I am in at the moment but because I don't want to be like some others out there on the web. Those who just start losing it and talking in a way that is very juvenile showing themselves to really be the "jahil" type people the Jamaat is always harping on about - eg. those extremist maulwis you see wielding sticks and waving them about in front of Ahmadi mosques in Bangladesh or somewhere.

The Jamaat is very clever in the fact that they never start ranting and raving on any public platform. They always portray themselves as being cool as a cucumber, the "peaceful" version of Islam, the "media friendly" version of Islam, the subdued Islam. Like I said before, these media people the Jamaat panders to, do not know Ahmadiyyat at ALL. All they see is the litter-picking, poppy-appeal collecting, blood-donating community people - the stuff that makes the local and, better for the Jamaat, national newspapers. What the media doesn't see is the blatant disregard the vast majority of the followers have for their own religion and its tenets. From the highest officials in the penthouse to your man on the ground floor. Justice to Equality, Discrimination to Prejudice you have every aspect of faith being pummeled on a daily basis displayed through the lives of the common Ahmadi. Is there really a reformation going on ? Are people really changing their ways back to the original ways of Islam? If Imaan has gone to Pleiades then where is the Imaan barometer of Ahmadis at the moment ? How is Ahmadiyyat ACTUALLY better than mainstream Islam at this exact moment in time?

You know my intention is always to keep it short and sweet but emotions overcome me and I feel the need to really elaborate in depth what I see around me. I start off intending to write a few lines but seem to go on forever! That is what happens when you have been an Ahmadi from birth and then you start actually realising what is going on around you in a whole new 'revelationary' light. Like the Pringles effect.

You want to know if I am in the same situation as before. Put it this way, I need to have a hunt down for my AIMS card as I have misplaced it. Jalsa 2013, here I come LoL ! My situation is pretty much in the same place as it has been for a long time. Ahmadiyyat still has a hold over me, through genetics more than anything else although false dichotomy has its part to play.

Family, oh family. Family is such a blessing but in this instance family is actually a bit of a stumbling block to someone like me and you Bro/Sis SeekingFreedom. I always equate this situation and say to someone that if someone is born a Jew or Christian or Hindu or Sikh then they have inherited it. Fairly obvious right, but if someone leaves a devout Christian family to come to Ahmadiyyat then he is the saved no-mobayeen for the latter. His parents will still mourn the loss of their son in a religious sense but their son will still be their son at the end of the day. They will love him unconditionally or will they ? In Ahmadiyyat and in a family like mine and I presume yours, the chains of love are also bound very tightly.

Ahmadiyyat is essentially a glue that becomes the adhesive which sticks together every compartment of everyday life from taking your children to read Qaida to shopping from the local Ahmadi butchers (Mubarik Halal Meat of Morden) getting burkas from dolls or getting your dish satellite re-jigged by that bloke. Or getting that dodgy satellite receiver box from the guy who does security on a Friday in Baitul-Futuh! "Where are you lot doing on Saturday?" you say to your relatives "I am going to Yaume this or that" or there is a meena bazaar going on or someone is going to do a duty and needs to be dropped off somewhere. I am from this type of situation - now the argument is that none of this matters if I am to find the true path for me personally.

The end game is essentially the fact that this life is a one-shot thing and you have to really put your trust in Allah Ta'Ala and ask Him to Guide you to what is the best way. I am currently lacking in prayers and am going through a few personal things as well so I take this moment to ask you to pray for me as well. I am always hoping and trying.

For you, Seeking Freedom, you have also said that your parents are looking to get you married off at the present time and I can see why you have come here looking for advice and even answers. I can only say to you that pray to Allah Ta'Ala , He tests you in many ways and you are at a particularly sensitive and fragile juncture of your life right now. I can tell that you are really stuck in your mind about what to and what not to do and what is right and what isn't. I do understand your predicament wholly and it is very tough to say what would be the right thing for you to do.

Lastly you don't need to worry about posting your comments here with regards to traceability etc. The guys who run this forum do a great job of keeping everything in check.

Take care and may Allah bring you to the right decisions and what is best for you. Ameen.

Logic :)
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Re: For Logic

Postby Zohaib » 29 Aug 2013, 06:28

Logic Welcome Back,

I am new here, but can not see much of the activities on this forum since Finding is not active every one gone underground :lol: ..
Zohaib
 
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Re: For Logic

Postby logic » 29 Aug 2013, 23:29

Salaam to you Brother Zohaib and thanks for the Welcome back.

I like the way you giggle in every post by the way :lol: !

This forum does not have many "activities" at the moment because that is just how it runs. I think everything about Ahmadiyyat has been exhaustively discussed and if you take the time to read through the older posts I think you will see that. There is much information there which would be invaluable for anyone that is asking questions and looking for answers. I might bump some that I personally thought were very interesting. Also you may notice the site set up to counter this and Sister Findings' blog called Cult Girl Ahmadiyya is similarly very quiet. I think that is just a reflection of things at present.

Another thing you mention is about Sister Findings. What she did was bring out the garam mirchan of the Jamaat ! The people from within the Jamaat who were after hot news came in their droves seeking out something they can talk about with their peers and now she isn't about, they aren't bovvered innit.

When the Naseer Shah drink-drive story broke you may have notice the amount of hits on the topic by Opened Eyes rocketed in 2 days. Again, a reflection of people within the Jamaat who know about this site and come back here only to get their fill of the garam mirchan - but not interested about their end game.
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Re: For Logic

Postby Zohaib » 30 Aug 2013, 03:35

Dear Brother/ Sister Logic ,

Thanks for your warm Welcome, :P I am visiting this forum since 6 month, i have studied all the post ,and guess what the information i took from here and put on Facebook pages,i am actively debating with some sort online Murabies ( Murghabies) on Facebook .. beside that i don't know if you have seen my new post in this forum, i hope you will like it, especially with Tittle MTA as Yajooj Majooj Ears . i am in contact with brother Waqar Cheema , as well i have had chat with brother Farhan, Both are amazing, indeed sister Finding is inspiring person in this forum who hold herself on Rafat Hayat Nerves as well as entire Jamat , Hope she is doing well.... hope every body come back so we can have more Fun on this forum
Zohaib
 
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Re: For Logic

Postby Zohaib » 30 Aug 2013, 03:40

One more thing, i have received some internal e mail from Jamat discussion going on between nasir Sultani and Abdul Ghaffar Janbha teams as well Jamat ahmediya , Lahories , Who they are asking evidence to each for their truthfulness, it is so hilarious, if u want me to send you, drop me a msge,
Zohaib
 
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Re: For Logic

Postby logic » 02 Sep 2013, 22:20

Thanks Brother Zohaib,

I am a bro too by the way. Brother from another mother. Just out of curiosity, where are you from?

I too really hope and pray that Sister Findings is doing well. With the greatest of respect to you, I understand why you would want Sister Findings to come back to the forum but as her 'mission' has run it's course and she has moved on [or been forced too], I think that her coming back so that we can 'have more fun on this forum' is not in itself a reason for that to happen.

Again, with the greatest of respect to you, I think that the forum being quiet at the moment is just a reflection of things at the moment with regard to movement of information back and forth. The 'fun' ie. garam masala era may have run its course.

This website has, I think, done what it set out to do and I think may have helped a lot of people in some way or other and is still doing so in terms of the theology. Since the popular usage of the internet has come about, all the information and issues that are relevant and useful have been talked about on this website through the blog and forum.

About you sending me some internal email communications of the Jamaat, I say thanks but no thanks. I am not interested in that. I have a big enough of a struggle at the moment with the Jamaat on a really basic level. Also like I have said many times before I have information about certain individuals of the Jamaat from the highest to local level and will never publish it. When I talk in my posts about Justice, Discrimination, Equality and Prejudice I am not just randomly using assumptions and heresay, infact I am actually referring to real examples I know about and have seen and continue to see.
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Re: For Logic

Postby SeekingFreedom » 02 Sep 2013, 23:12

@Zohaib Thanks for replying :) Yes it is very hard to leave the jamaat.. They have such a strong hold over our lives and its very difficult to leave.

@logic Thanks alot for replying! I will keep you in my prayers, may Allah help you with your problems, Ameen.

Jalsa this year was an eye opener for me. Since reading on this forum I started to see flaws everywhere in the jamaat, which I could see before but ignored. The "green area" concept annoys me so much, the way they treat the khandaan and international guests as royalty while the rest of us "commoners" are treated like peasants. As I was doing duty in that area I saw some incidents which made me horrified. Namaz was just about to start and an old lady came to the green area entrance and asked the lady at the door if she could come in just to read namaz, the lady refused and said no you dont have the green area badge, the old lady requested (in urdu) to just give her a chair from the green area so she can read her namaz outside, and she still refused.. after about 2-3 minutes of pleading the lady finally agreed to give her a chair and let her pray outside. This incident made me feel so sick and disgusted. Reading namaz is a fundemental right of the old lady and she shouldnt have to plead for a chair!! Another incident I witnessed was also disgusting. A few women had placed their chaddars (sheets) outside the green area when a nazma (in charge) came and said you cant sit over here you have to move, the ladies said we just want to pray and the nazma refused and said if you sit here you cannot pray, get up and move from here you are not allowed to sit outside this area. At this point I wanted to walk away but as I was on duty I couldnt. After about 5 minutes of arguing the ladies moved. Its just horrible the way these nazmas think they have the power to tell someone where they can and cannot pray. My sister works in the bazaar and she told me how people from the green area are able to skip long ques and come to the front, get their food and go while people have been queuing for 20 minutes.

Sorry for my little rant :oops: but I just hate what the "green area" stands for and symbolises. Theres alot more i want to rant but dont want to bore you :D I hope your jalsa went well!

And yes.. you are right, the jamaat presents themselves as saints in the eyes of the media. They show how peaceful they are but as insiders we know the reality. Hazoor always preaches how ahmadiyyat is the true Islam, we represent the true teachings of Islam and the Islam that the Holy Prophet (SAW) left us with.. but I can see the reality that this is not true. Hazoor always asks us to keep the ahmadis suffering in Pakistan in our prayers but he never asks us to keep the Muslims in Syria in our prayers or to keep the Muslims in Egypt in our prayers. What does this show? A so called spiritual leader does not care about the suffering of Muslims unless they are ahmadis. And in answer to your question, ahmadiyyat is not better than mainstream Islam in any way, just because you have segregated weddings and have presented a speech at the Houses of Parliament (every one who attended looked like they were falling asleep listening to the monotone and droning voice of hazoor attempting to speak english) does not mean you are better Muslims or that you are the 'reformers'. Ahmadiyyat has not reformed anything, ahmadis are not any better than mainstream Muslims, perhaps even worse in regards to eating Halal food and praying FIVE times a day.. not combing zuhr and asr and maghrib and isha. (Im not perfect in my prayers either but just wanted to make a point that ahmadis are not the ideal Muslims they think they are.)

I agree, family has a strong hold over us.. especially as we are born into ahmadiyyat and every single member of our familes are ahmadis. I pray Allah helps you in your situation.

I am just praying that Allah gives me a spouse who has similar thinking to me and has similar views regarding ahmadiyyat, in shaa Allah. Allah knows best what to do.

Oh and I can totally relate with you on the examples you gave.. The dodgy dish, meena bazaar, duty, yaume khilafat day, yaume musleh maud day (jheez how many do they have, local ones, regional ones then national ones :roll: )
SeekingFreedom
 
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Re: For Logic

Postby Zohaib » 21 Sep 2013, 19:25

Salam Alikum Bro,.. Sorry for my late response, i was away for my brother Marriage,Which just took Place in Pakistan so it is obvious i need to fly back to Pak... just yesterday back to HK, o Yah, Let me tell you where i am from, My brother i am From HONG KONG, Thanks to Allah, i have never encounter to meet any Ahmedi in HONG KOng, nor their any representative in HK...i wonder if there is any one here who represent Ahmedi but no clue,

SeekingFreedom

I can understand your situation, but try you best come out from this cult and save yourself from Hellfire,

I pray , Allah Almighty remove all the hurdle upon u and guide you to right path,

Regards
Zohaib
Zohaib
 
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