For Logic

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Re: For Logic

Postby logic » 07 Nov 2013, 23:44

Salaam and once again sincere apologies for the late responses.

Brother Zohaib, you are from Hong Kong! Nice! I have always wanted to visit there. You know I can speak a sentence of Chinese - Kung Hai Fa Choy - which as you know means Happy New Year ! I learnt that sentence when I was in primary school. It was around the time of Chinese New Year (year of the monkey as I distinctly remember) Out teacher got us to make these ornate little red envelopes in which we each dropped a pound coin into and then presented it to the people residing in the old folks home down the road. That left me confused, even now I am wondering ! Guess it was a nice gesture though. Congratulations for the wedding of your Brother, I hope it all goes swimmingly, InshAllah.

Sister Seeking Freedom, Thank you for the prayers, I didn't know this place was going to be this much of a challenge but Allah Ta'Allah only gives that what He knows His creation can handle, so I guess the motto is keep calm and carry on.

Your opening sentence really fascinated me : "Jalsa this year was an eye opener for me. Since reading on this forum I started to see flaws everywhere in the jamaat, which I could see before but ignored" What you have said is so true. That is how it is. People in this Jamaat are deaf. blind and dumb to what is going on - all willfully [think zombie] . It is literally like the Mind-Control element described in the definition of a 'Cult' is in action and to be seen at Jalsas Ijtemas Meetings etc. I still don't like referring to Ahmadiyyat as a Cult but by jove does it fulfil most of the criterion for that ( http://www.csj.org/infoserv_cult101/checklis.htm ) I think Mind-Control of the masses is the really big one. Things like financial pressures, time pressures etc etc come after that.

You know it reminds me, I was speaking to this guy who runs a stall in Brixton market about various things, mainly the economy and he came out with this sentence that has stayed with me which is "The greatest weapon of the oppressor is the mind of the oppressed" - straight away I thought of the Jamaat. The Jamaat doesn't actually need to do a lot in terms of pacifying the young questioning minds of the youth of Ahmadiyyat, why? because the parents tell them to be quiet and don't question anything because they are the specially chosen saved ones (another cult-like thingy) . Actually I just remembered that Hazoor once said in a khutba not too long ago that people should be allowed to ask questions and things on their mind about the Jamaat and that they should infact be actively encouraged to do so. I think that this was all part of a drive which culminated in http://www.whyahmadi.org , a website specifically designed for the youth, are invited to click and learn about "Why am I an Ahmadi". I am going to go into a bit more detail about that website soon and a few other things, InshAllah.

This whole Why Am I an Ahmadi thing is really intriguing within itself, think about it - if it wasn't for the internet this would not be an issue anywhere within the Jamaat, granted the Jamaat could say that they are just refuting the lies that have been spread since the Internet has come about but let's face it - I don't think there are many lies going around - just simple, hard, cold, FACTS. Things that the Jamaat would have loved never to have seen the light of day - things like John Hugh Smyth-Piggot - things like Hadith about the 14th Century Reformer - things like the difference between 5 and 50 being a DOT, ay chihuahua, tell that to the taxman and see if it works !

I feel all what you say about Jalsa 2013. It was the same for me as you describe it - the usual things happening - the green area, the khandaan, the peasants, the queue jumping, the totally uninspiring speeches -- it is the usual Jalsa fayre. You know what, Jalsa this year just left me kind of nonplussed. I was indifferent to it and didn't even feel the need to come here and air my feelings of it like I did last year in my 2012 Report! Jalsa is Jalsa is Jalsa and that's it. What I would like to point out is that this year (like all others) there was a lot of hype about the organisation and logistics, people like Brother Ayyaz Mahmood Khan bigging up the event on MTA in a most normal way ie - over and over and over.

By the way I think a lot of people forget that although Jalsa is free to enter and the food is free and the amenities are all free there is the small fact that there is a Jalsa Chanda to pay which is obligatory and at the rate of 1/10th of one months income. Let me do some quick napkin maths = average Salary £1500 = £150 Jalsa Chanda = £150x10000 earning members = £1.5 Million Pounds. Remember, there is no such thing as a free lunch!

Sister SF, regarding your marriage situation I feel that it might be too much of a wish for you to find someone who thinks the same as you about the Jamaat. Exchange of views about Ahmadiyyat are only really on this site and ahmedi.org What I can say, thinking about the general population around me, is that when you actually start talking to someone you know about the Jamaat and say "don't you think this is a bit weird?" or "what does this mean?" with regard to Jamaat only then do you find out that this person also thinks why is such n such like that or not etcetc. and then you get to know the person's real mindset when they are talking to you one on one. Again that is unlikely to happen with you because you would be looking to talk to a guy similiar to your age.

When I look at your situation, I feel for you but also think that there is a reality that maybe you will not end up finding the kind of person you are looking for within the Jamaat. You may in the end just give in to your parents if you are anything like my sisters! Proper arranged marriage type scenarios! But will that leave you feeling satisfied with your choices going forward, taking into account where you are now with Ahmadiyyat. It is such a difficult decision I know. May Allah carve a way into your life that is better for you, Ameen.
logic
 
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Re: For Logic

Postby Zohaib » 09 Nov 2013, 03:38

W Salam, How are you?

Any time you can visit Hong Kong,, I am here always ;) Kung Hai Fai Choi, is for happy new year, it for CNY Chinese new year, This year is Horse year I think lol

Red envelopes are given during CNY as we give Eidi during Eid, Only Married person can give red envelopes to his surrounding kinships to show the affection and love in relationship. By the grace of ALLAH wedding ceremony goes well & we are back to HK.. How about your side, how it is going on? Are you using FB, if yes send me link in PVT

Regards
Zohaib
Zohaib
 
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Re: For Logic

Postby SeekingFreedom » 06 Dec 2013, 20:43

Salaam!

Extremely sorry for the late reply!

Brother Logic, I agree with the mind control thing! Fear of bringing 'dishonour' on your family is the main mind control weapon that ties everyone to the jamaat. No-one wants to disgrace their parents and put them to shame in front of their friends and family.

Yes, Ive read that website and I guess their answers seem fine. But in their eyes they are right and in the eyes of Non-ahmadis they are right.. So i guess each side thinks the other is wrong so is there a correct answer? Whatever seems right to you, you should follow and Allah knows best.

As to the hadith about the 14th century reformer, I asked someone from my jamaat about it and they said that the jamaat has so many papers it might have been misplaced :lol:

WOW that is ALOT of money :O But I guess they need the money for the material of the food, the tents, the sleeping accommodation, toilet hire, and of course the expenses of the international and VIP guests ;)

Yes you're right. Ive decided that it is too much to wish for someone who thinks similarly as i do about the jamaat. Ive decided to give in to my parents and settle with an arranged marriage :D I like your advice about asking those certain questions, perhaps I will do that after my marriage (whenever it happens, iA) to see what my (future) husband thinks of the jamaat.

Wasalam.
SeekingFreedom
 
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Re: For Logic

Postby Abdullah7 » 11 Dec 2013, 10:05

Bismillahir-Rehmanir-Raheem, Ussalam-o-Alaikum.

... Fear of bringing 'dishonour' on your family is the main mind control weapon that ties everyone to the jamaat ...


Question over here for everyone is that, IS bringing dishonor to family a greater sin or bringing dishonor to ALLAH religion by our actions is greater sin ? because when one say he/she is a Muslim, he/she is representing ALLAH religion which ALLAH chose and accepted for us and that is ISLAM.

Think for a moment if Prophet Mohd (PBUH) has thought the same way, that He (PBUH) is bringing dishonor to family of Quresh by proclaiming the oneness of ALLAH and because of that fear rejected the truth what would be the case today ?

There is no difference between Quresh way of living at that time and the jamaat way of living for Qadianies. For Quresh they believed in the way of their forefathers and for Qadianies is the same believing their forefathers blindly even though in their hearts they find it not to be true or make sense and it clearly feels wrong, but they still hold on to it, just like the leaders of Quresh and their followers did, like Abu Jahal and so on. This could be beautifully summed up in ALLAH words as follow:

(Surah Al-Baqarah 2/170-171)
When they are told, 'Follow what Allah has sent down to you,' They say, 'We are following what we found our fathers doing.' What, even though their fathers did not understand a thing and were not guided!. The likeness of those who disbelieve is that of someone who yells out to something which cannot hear - it is nothing but a cry and a call. Deaf - dumb - blind. They do not use their intellect.


Talking to a qadiani feels like talking to some one who is deaf - dumb - blind as they do not use their intellect. Almost 99% of qadianies never read the books of Mirza Sahib and yet they just blindly follow what is told to them by their jamaat heads. So when a qadiani hear voice in their heart which they feel when they question their jamaat heads about what they found out by reading it on internet or talked with someone when they encounter the questions about Mirza Sahib, instead of accepting the truth they over come that voice in their heart or ignore it due to the reason of dishonor or loosing worldly benefits or whatever the reason.

This could again be beautifully summed up in ALLAH words as follow:

(Surah Al-Anbiya 21/63-67)
He said, 'No, this one, the biggest of them, did it. Ask them if they are able to speak!' They consulted among themselves and said, 'It is you yourselves who are wrongdoers.' But then they relapsed back into their disbelief 'You know full well these idols cannot talk.' He said, 'Do you then worship, instead of Allah, what cannot help or harm you in any way? Shame on you and what you worship besides Allah! Will you not use your intellect?'


It's same as they knew that their idols cannot talk or reply back, similarly the answer qadianies get from their heads or family are the same, makes no sense and they know it too example:

I asked someone from my jamaat about it and they said that the jamaat has so many papers it might have been misplaced.


but yet still cling on to it, due to the fear or whatever other reason they tell to themselves to shutdown their inner voice.

And such act is for what ? for worldly things ? worldly power and gains ? worldly respect and honor ?, which unfortunately will be left behind in this world, when one dies and will feel regret when one comes to know the truth after ones death, as ALLAH informed us in Quran.

(Surah Al-Hijr 15/2)
A time will surely come when those who are bent on denying the truth will wish that they had surrendered themselves to God.


So to both Logic and SeekingFreedom and anyone else, put ALLAH first and not your families. Put your life of Akhira first and not this worldly life which eventually going to end in some point in time, but life of afterwards is forever and ever. If you think life is hard here while living in home and having food and all such, think of life of Akhira in fire with no comfort and life of pain forever and ever.

And as for the families for whom you and others are forsaking their Akhira, see what ALLAH informs us about them.

(Surah Abasa 80/34-37)
the Day a man will flee from his brother and his mother and his father, and his wife and his children: on that Day every man among them will have concerns enough of his own.


So today for whom one is forsaking Akhira, on that day, they will forsake them and will only think for themselves and will happily give away their loved ones in their place to be safe. As ALLAH informs us clearly.

(Surah Al-Ma'arij 70/10-14)
no good friend will ask about his friend even though they can see each other. An evildoer will wish he could ransom himself from the punishment of that Day, by means of his sons, or his wife or his brother or his family who sheltered him or everyone else on earth, if that only meant that he could save himself.


So all of us need to take a moment to reflect that whatever action we take and for whom we take, we need to make sure, that in the process we don't lose afterlife because of it, it's better to make ones family friend or as a matter of fact whole world angry or displease with us, than to displease ALLAH.
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