Why Muslim women should not marry into Ahmadis.

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Why Muslim women should not marry into Ahmadis.

Postby Findings » 19 Oct 2010, 09:52

Salaam sisters and readers.

I present here a topic which was something of a ‘hot’ topic a few months back, where a young Muslimah came to this forum looking for advice on marrying her Ahmadi friend. I am re-posting it here as I suspect there may be more girls like Sister Shabnam who are looking for advice on a similar matter.

I noticed from the topic that Shabnam was not being offered the advice she needed as at the time, and Shabnam was outnumbered by all the men. Through no fault of the brothers as they did what they thought was best, Shabnam did not come back to the forum for further advice and assistance as perhaps she felt uneasy and did not welcome the advice the brothers gave her.

It was decided by Brother Shahid that a sister section be set up, for all girls and women alike, to discuss any queries they have with regards to Ahmadiyya. It could be an issue you have trying to marry a non ahmadi or the treatment you receive from the community for being expelled for marrying one.

Below you will find Sister Shabnam’s initial post which gives you a brief insight into her plight:

“I am a sunni n im in a relation with ahmadiyya person. we r in a relation for 4 years and in the 1st year i dint know dat ahmediyya people r called non-muslim but 4rm da time i hav cum 2 knw v both r tryg 2 come up wit sum decision. If i hav 2 get married wit i hav 2 convert which my heart dnt allow me 2 do it. I dnt wanna break da relation with him as i cant live witout him. but then i cant convert as im brought up in such a islamic way dat i cant understant dat ahmediyya community is right or wrong !! as Allah s.w.t knows better but den wt shud i do nw.
we dnt hav much time.
I dnt understand what shud i do???
I need your help please suggest n advice me.”.

You can view the original topic here:



This is my response to Shabnam. It was kept very basic and to the point in the hope that Shabnam would be able to understand and relate to what I was trying to say.


Salaam Shabnam,

I hope you are still browsing this forum, as from your last post it seems you were a tad fed up with the help/lack of it, you were receiving. I will keep this very simple for you. Please DO NOT marry this Ahmadi boy. I can assure you that you will long live to regret it. You seem quite young from your posts, perhaps you are thinking irrationally right about now, and however, you must remove heart from mind and think clearly. You know little of the Ahmadi Cult unless you are or were part of it. What you see from the outside is a united community, victims of horrid torture at the hands of Sunni 'Mullahs'. You see people who run marathons and organise big charity fundraisers and you see white people praising 'the peace and unity of the ahmadiyya muslim community'. You see people hugging and greeting each other warmly on MTA and you see people putting their hands deep into their pockets, donating any spare cash they have to their community, in order for it to conquer the globe.
Let me tell you, it is NOT WHAT IT SEEMS. Trust me when I tell you this. I am a 20 something female and was born an Ahmadi. My family has very strong ties with the community, my father is a key worker for Mirza Masroor (the current 'khalifa'). So, rest assured what I am telling you first hand information from experience, length of time in the system and also from a lot of background knowledge.

This is why you should NOT marry him (these are basic examples to help you understand):

1) THEY HATE MUSLIMS- ESPECIALLY SUNNIS AND HATE THEM WITH AN ABSOLUTE PASSION. COULD YOU LIVE WITH THAT? YOU KNOW IN LAHORE AHMADIS WERE SHOT DEAD? WELL, ACCORDING TO AHMADIS, THE FLOODS IN PAKISTAN ARE NOW A PUNISHMENT FROM ALLAH BECAUSE SUNNIS KILLED THE AHMADIS. COULD YOU LIVE WITH THIS? WOULD IT NOT MAKE YOU ANGRY? UPSET? THAT THEY TALK ABOUT YOUR BELOVED RELIGION AND ITS FOLLOWERS LIKE THIS- EVEN THOUGH TO YOUR FACE THEY ARE PLEASANT?

2) THEY WOULD NEVER ACCEPT YOU. IF YOU WERE A WHITE GIRL, A JEW, A CHRISTIAN OR EVEN A HINDU-THEY WOULD, WITH OPEN ARMS. HOWEVER, YOU ARE A MUSLIM. THIS TO THEM, IS WORSE THAN A SIKH.

3) FEW GUYS EVER CONVERT FOR WOMEN-THAT IS WHY HE WOULD NEVER DO THIS. HE MAY SAY HE WILL, JUST TO KEEP YOU WITH HIM THAT LITTLE BIT LONGER, BUT HE WILL NOT. YOU WILL HAVE TO CONVERT.

4) CONVERSION IS A LONG PROCESS. YOU NEED TO SIGN THE 'BAIT FORMS' (YOU CAN SEE THIS ON ALISLAM.ORG), REGISTER WITH A LOCAL JAMAAT, PAY MONTHLY DONATIONS ETC. AFTER THIS IS WHEN YOU WOULD BE ABLE TO MARRY A MEMBER OF THE COMMUNITY. FOR SOME, IT CAN TAKE UP TO 2 YEARS.

5) THEY SPIT OUT A LOT OF INSULTS ABOUT MUSLIMS THAT YOU WOULD HAVE TO LISTEN TO. FOR EXAMPLE: PALESTINE IS SUFFERING BECAUSE IT HAS NOT ACCEPTED AHMADIYYAT. WOULD YOU BE ABLE TO TAKE THAT? THEY WILL CONSTANTLY REFER TO MUSLIMS AS 'THE OPPOSITION', 'THE OPPRESSORS', 'THE BLIND'. COULD YOU SIT THERE AND LISTEN TO THIS WITHOUT BECOMING UPSET?

6) YOUR FAMILY WILL BE CONSIDERED ''CHILDREN OF PROSTITUTES'' AND ''KAFIR'' FOR NOT ACCEPTING AHMADIYYAT. COULD YOU ACCEPT THIS?

7) YOUR CHILDREN WILL NOT LEARN THE QU'RAN PROPERLY. THEY WILL PROBABLY EAT HARAM FOOD (AHMADIS ARE NOT BOTHERED BY HALAL MEAT ETC..). THEY WILL KNOW NOTHING OF ISLAM, BUT EVERYTHING ABOUT AHMADIYYAT. THEY WILL THINK IDOL WORSHIP IS OK (KISSING ''KHALIFAS'' HAND, PUTTING HIS PICTURES UP ALL OVER THE HOUSE). THEY WILL KNOW EVERYTHING ABOUT MIRZA GHULAM AND BARELY ANYTHING OF THE PROPHET (PBUH).

8) YOU WILL BE CHASED FOR PAYMENTS OF 'CHANDA'. YOU WILL GET PHONE CALLS FROM YOUR LOCAL PRESIDENT DEMANDING MONEY, ASKING HOW MUCH YOU EARN, WHEN WILL YOU MAKE THE PAYMENTS.

9) IF YOU ARE PAKISTANI- YOU WILL BE LEFT OUT. PEOPLE WILL MORE LIKELY THAN NOT TO IGNORE YOU. IF YOU ARE NOT, YOU WILL BECOME THE LATEST CONVERT CELEBRITY- ALMOST LIKE A CIRCUS ACT. THEY WILL PARADE YOU AROUND ALL OVER THE PLACE, DEPENDING ON WHAT THEY THINK OF YOUR PREVIOUS 'GHAIR AHMADI' BACKGROUND.

10) YOU WILL BECOME IMPRISONED WITHIN THE SYSTEM. THEY WILL KNOW EVERYTHING ABOUT YOU- EVEN HOW MUCH YOU EARN.


How does that all sound? Ready for it? You are talking like him converting is an option- it isn't!! He will NOT convert, unless he finds his own way out. The only way for you to marry him would be for you to convert.
Seems extreme right? Well that's just how it is!

Stay away from Ahmadis. You do not know how lucky you are, I would give anything to be in your shoes. Stay away for the sake of your sanity. Stay away for the sake of your afterlife. Stay away for the sake of your family. Please do not go from being a blessed Muslim to becoming a Kafir for the sake of a young man.
Do not go near this community. You must trust everyone who is telling you to stay away.
I know it is hard, but with time, it will get easier. Pray to Allah to guide you away from them, and pray to Allah to ease your emotional pain and attachment to him.
You are very lucky to be from a Muslim family, do not give this up for anyone.



What I present to you here is the truth. I do not lie or over exaggerate. I live amongst these people and I know the 'drill'. If you people could only know what goes on in the inside, you would not dare touch it with a barge pole. Sure, you see them on Sky News talking lovingly about Islam and they seem so well educated and knowledgeable on everything and anything.

They are not. They lie and they fabricate. It is a cult. You will become trapped and they will torture you should you go against them. Sure, they wont harm you physically, but they do something far worse- they harm your emotional and mental health.

So, for all you girls' thinking of marrying one, think again. Even for the guys, think again. What will your children make of you that their father signed away his religion to marry a woman. How can you teach them self respect and worth when you yourself, folded to please her family? What about your family and the pain it will cause your parents?

I urge you all to think before you act.


You do not need to even reply to this thread. Many of you Ahmadis are perhaps sceptical and scared that the Jamaat would know its you and so therefore, do not want to sign up. Just read...
Read the topics of this forum to see the truth for yourself. Even topics that are of no relevance to you, read them and get an idea of what really goes on. Read the Islamaphobic comments they make. Read the documented proof that Masroor encourages social boycotting. READ!!!
Findings
 

Re: Why Muslim women should not marry into Ahmadis.

Postby Huma » 30 Dec 2010, 15:10

Dear Findings,

It's nice to see that you care for your fellow sisters and want to advise them in the way you see best fit, however there are some points on which I must differ. I would like to discuss the ten points you mentioned. For the first, you claim that Ahmadis hate Muslims. This is not at all true. It is true that some did believe the flood was a punishment from Allah, but that doesn't mean they hate anyone. It is simply what they believe. If a child is annoying someone and then gets yelled at for it, the parent would say it is the child's punishment, no? But it does not mean the parent hates that child. Ahmadis do not hate other Muslims. They are true to their motto of Love for All, Hatred for None. Of course, everyone in the community is not the same, but you can never expect them to be either. There are always some who act in ways that misrepresent the community. Also, if an Ahmadi man wanted to marry an non-Ahmadi woman, I take it he would have some liking to her. Why, then, would he hate her all of a sudden for being a Muslim? Would he not have seen that in the first place and decided not to pursue her at all? I find this answer suffices for your second point as well, since it is in essence the same as the first.

For your third point, I do agree that a girl would likely have to convert and that an Ahmadi man would not easily leave his religion if he is dedicated to it. But there is no compulsion in religion, and no one would force a girl to do anything against her will. Your fourth point again is similar to the preceding one, yet I will say that conversion is not at all a long process and it'd not take more than a few weeks to complete. There is a form and an oath, nothing more. Yes, there are donations that are required of each member, but those are not collected upon conversion. There is not a price upon bait.

Your fifth point is again the same as your first, so I won't repeat discussion regarding it, and so is the sixth point. For the seventh point, I must disagree. True Ahmadis are very particular about teaching their children the Holy Qur'an and always see to it that it is done with frequency and accuracy, and I have never seen one even considering to eat something forbidden, so I do not know what you base those allegations on, for it is not a uniform action throughout the community. Many only buy meat from Halal meat stores. Ahmadis are strictly against idol worship. Kissing the Khalifa's hand is not idol worship; it is an expression of love, and no one is required to do it, and it is not done often. Yes, they are fond of Khalifas and sometimes do have photographs of them in their homes, but they do not worship these photographs. Again, there is some very deep misunderstanding here with that. And again I do not know why you say they know more about the Founder of Ahmadiyyat than the Holy Prophet (peace be upon them both). That, too, is an extreme generalization and I find it false.

Point eight is again similar to the first conversion point you made. Yes, one would be persistently asked for their chanda, because that is the financial foundation of the community, to which each member happily and willingly donates and supports. And it is not a Goliath of a fund either; it's like five bucks a month for some. One must be quite worldly and selfish to hesitate at paying such a small fee for the perpetuation their faith.

The ninth point makes no sense. Many Ahmadis are Pakistani themselves. Why would they hate one solely for being Pakistani? And perhaps you may become popular amongst them for your initial while, but that is only because it's human to take interest and be curious. They would not parade around you and treat you like a circus act. For your last point I also disagree. You cannot be "imprisoned" within "the system". There is no compulsion in religion, and one who sees some is the one who makes it for themselves.

To conclude, I will simply and shortly say that one is better off marrying within their sect, meaning that you should socialize within it and not catch the attentions of men who are not associated with it, for if one is a true Muslim woman, she would not do so to begin with.

Thanks for reading =)
Huma
 
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Re: Why Muslim women should not marry into Ahmadis.

Postby abdulghaffar » 30 Dec 2010, 16:45

Salam, though this is for Findings, I would like to point out the a flaw in the Ahmadi thinking. Not to bash you Huma, but to point something out that needs to be pointed out.

We do not have access to information of whether Allah punished X or punished Y as a result of not believing in Mirza G. Take the pakistani flood for example. Many Ahmadis told me that its because they rejected Mirza, but then when I asked them about the 500 ahmadi families that were also a part of this punishment I got more varied responses than the number of people telling me. Even something like "We are not God, so we dont know why that happened."

So when you say,
"This is not at all true. It is true that some did believe the flood was a punishment from Allah, but that doesn't mean they hate anyone. It is simply what they believe. If a child is annoying someone and then gets yelled at for it, the parent would say it is the child's punishment, no?"


You are entirely wrong. The murders of Ahamdis in Pakistan, by your logic, can be an act of God. So we should all be thankful for their deaths? What about the shameful death of dying from a horrible disease on the toilet? Is that an act of God? We must remain consistent.

I'll leave the rest to findings since this thread is directed to her.
"Every claim to prophethood after him is falsehood and deceit." -Imam al-Tahawi (d. 321 AH)
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Re: Why Muslim women should not marry into Ahmadis.

Postby Huma » 31 Dec 2010, 21:11

w s abdulghaffar,

Of course, one cannot prove that anything has happened as a specific act of punishment from Allah. It is just an opinion if one does say so. I was saying that just because someone thinks that someone else is being punished, it doesn't necessarily mean that hatred is associated with that thought. Also, everything is an act of God, or perhaps better worded, something that God has allowed to happen. Nothing happens against his will.

Thanks for your reply =)
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Re: Why Muslim women should not marry into Ahmadis.

Postby A Sadiq » 01 Jan 2011, 12:38

If a child is annoying someone and then gets yelled at for it, the parent would say it is the child's punishment, no? But it does not mean the parent hates that child. Huma

With due respect, your example is flawed. There is an underlying fact in the child-parent relationship, i.e. parents love their child. One cannot assume this in the Ahmadi-Muslim relationship. If we assume this, then the assumption and the conclusion are the same. I hope you understand my point.

Regards
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Re: Why Muslim women should not marry into Ahmadis.

Postby Huma » 01 Jan 2011, 19:30

A Sadiq,

Yes, I understand your point and I also agree, and similarly, one cannot assume that the Ahmadi-Muslim relationship is one of hatred, either.
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Re: Why Muslim women should not marry into Ahmadis.

Postby xiaahmad » 02 Jan 2011, 13:30

One thing I would like to point out that ahmadies consider Muslim (non ahmadies) like wat muslims consider christians and jews. that why they marry with non ahmadies girls and not non ahmadi boys
Prophet Muhammad (SAW) said: "Indeed, messengership and Prophethood have terminated. So, there is no Messenger after me and no Prophet”.
(Jami' Tirmidhi, hadith 2272
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Re: Why Muslim women should not marry into Ahmadis.

Postby FindingsII » 10 Jan 2011, 15:22

Dear Sister Humma,

Thank you for taking the time out to read the thread. I must make it clear, these points were raised specifically for Sister Shabnam and were set out in a way that she would best understand them (without patronising) and were straight to the point, to assist her in the way I thought was best.

Ok your first point, about Ahmadis being true to their motto ‘love for all, hatred for none’ is not true, as far as I am concerned. I have myself witnessed disgusting and horrid treatment of members and have heard the cruel talk they indulge in about everyone and anyone who is not Ahmadi. Further, it is worth considering that it is simply not possible to ‘love all and hate none’, does Masroor love murderers and paedophiles and convicted drug dealers and rapists? (excuse the pun)? It is simply not possible to ‘love everyone’ and Qadiani love is selective… not for all! We both know this, so no need to beat around the bush.. it’s a dressing and nothing more.

You do not seem to get the point I made about Ahmadis hating Muslims; I am not here discussing any single case or anything of the sort, I was giving Shabnam an example of what she will have to put up and come to terms with as an ‘Ahmadi’, clear hatred for her religion. Perhaps ‘Ahmadis hate Islam’ is more apt, rather than Muslim, because that suggests a single person rather than the entire religion. So no, her boyfriend would not hate her because she is a Muslim, rather, his community clearly hate Islam. It is not confined simply to the Pakistan Vs Ahmadi issue, it is also something that is most certainly evident when Mirza Masroor addressed the Palestine conflict ‘they must accept imam of the age and repent, that is why they are suffering’..this to me is hatred, and I know countless Muslims were deeply offended by this when I told them

Perhaps you live outside the UK, and that is why you are under the impression that there is no price on ‘bait’- there is, especially here in the UK! Even born Ahmadis, who have lost contact with the Jamaat for whatever reason, should they wish to marry within the community HAVE to prove themselves by paying chanda- fact. It is a quick process in that the form takes seconds to sign, but to be permitted to marry an Ahmadi one must be on the register for a minimum of 2 years unless there are exceptional circumstances (ie: how well you know Masroor).

I won’t address the points you make about Idol worship- shirk and pir muredee have been discussed in detail on the forum- please browse for further information. As for not being taught the basics of Islam, I strongly disagree. As an ‘Ahmadi’ who grew up on set (fazal mosque) I will say that Islam is secondary to Ahmadiyyat. As for the Halal meat issue, yeah sure they buy from halal meat shops but they also think nothing on munching a mchicken sandwich that is not Halal. What is the point????

Point 9 was a typo- thanks for pointing this out. What I meant to say was she would be paraded around like a celebrity if she wasn’t Pakistani (non asian) but If she is an asian ‘ahmadi convert’ many would not take so kindly to her.

Ahmadis are compelled to stay Ahmadis, you are well aware of the ramifications of what happens to the families of those who are expelled. With all due respect, please does not sugar coat the bitter truth, we are not easily fooled here! They also have no choice when they are thrown out, and so just as they are compelled to stay (family ties/public humiliation) they are forced to leave against their will too!

As for chanda- I can think of far more charitable causes to donate money too, like a poor relative who can't keep up with the bills or a centre that helps feed the poor..chanda is not the only way to receive rewards from Allah. Also, it may be worth pointing out that you may consider it 'propagating' faith, but so far, thousands of pounds on evian water and table cloths has bagged UK Jamaat 1000 odd converts over the past 10 years. WOW! What an achievement right?? Hardly...

Its easy to sway an uneducated african to signing up to Ahmadiyyat, the true test is when the converts consist of highly educated persons. Lauren Booth, sister in law of former UK PM Tony Blair recently converted to Islam (normal/orthodox Islam)... the proof is in the pudding...I am sure she would have turned down the chance to be an Ahamdi. Also, why have all the elite doctors and lawyers the Jamaat have on speed dial not signing up to becoming Ahmadi? That is where your money is going after all, organising lavish and pointless events...the numbers speak for itself my dear sister...
Hope that makes sense.

(apologies for the typos, my screen is small and does not have auto correct.)
FindingsII
 

Re: Why Muslim women should not marry into Ahmadis.

Postby blessed » 15 Jan 2011, 20:25

AOA Sisters,

I would like to thank sister findings for her posts intended to help out sister shabnam, not only will it help her inshallah but it has also helped me gain very valuable insight. I would like to share my own experience as well regarding wanting to marry an ahmadi guy, because hopefully the way reading posts here have helped me it may help others in a dilemma.

First of all though, I would like to give a reply to sister's Huma's words, which I found quite offensive actually and baseless, as follows:
To conclude, I will simply and shortly say that one is better off marrying within their sect, meaning that you should socialize within it and not catch the attentions of men who are not associated with it, for if one is a true Muslim woman, she would not do so to begin with.


I am afraid you are contradicting yourself and proving sister findings point with what you have said above sister huma, that to ahmadis islam is secondary and the jamaat is first and foremost. In islam I hope you are aware it has been explicitly stated not to create sects or believe in them, sura al imran actually says it is not allowed. Yet the prophet (SAW) did say the ummah would be divided, and this is not exclusive to ahmadis infact we are all here today having accepted a divided umma. But when it comes to marriage, in islam it is prescribed that when a woman is searching for a partner it should be solely based on the moral quality, the imaan, religious character of the guy - religous character as in a GOOD MUSLIM not a good AHMADI or a good SUNNI. When men are searching for a woman they are also supposed to look for beauty, moral substance, wealth and religious piety. So first of all I do not understand based on which judgemental rights did you comment saying a good muslimah would never attract attention of men not associated with their sect, and secondly based on WHAT substance/quranic or islamic evidence did you make that above comment? And if you meant a good muslimah shouldnt attract the attention of men in general you are correct but a muslimah has all the right in the world to get to know a muslim(any sect) brother, if you call that attracting their attention, before deciding to marry him and spending the rest of her life with him; specially in this day and age where people are so corrupt and what shows on the outside is completely different from the real personality (coming from the "modern, reformed, ahmadi muslims" if your comment meant the latter, not catch the attention of men period, that comment would be very ironic). Anyway, not only in the case of marriage it seems that you have put a ban on SOCIALIZING outside respective sects as well. Now I do not understand when bigger sects and MUCH MORE orthodox muslims have no strict restrictions in marrying outside sects, why would the ahmadiyyat go out of their way to forbid this? They literally throw you out of the jamat if you marry someone outside the sect (men women alike today) and have legal rules against marrying a non ahmadi...Now why would this be? please do not say because they want to ensure the success of the marriage. If intersect marriages would jeopardize successes of marriages greatly, islam being the perfect religion would have created specific rulings regarding the issue (because the prophet(SAW) DID know the ummah would be divided yet he never said anythign about forbidding intermingling); but in islam since petty sectual differences are NOT THE FRONTIER segregating sects is NOT prescribed. Infact all sects are concerned about marital sucess not just the ahmadis, so if they also felt it were that big of a deal and so destructive they would also have introduced serious rulings against intersect marriages. But it stands that for ahmadis satisfying merely the islamic requirements for marriage is not enough, they have to ensure the jamaat's security in every possible situation. The only reason(or the most of important one anyway) ahmadis are so against intersect marriages is because (quote from various, non-related ahmadis) "they want to ensure their jamaat doesn't stop growing by explicitly making sure every child born to a half ahmadi couple is ahmadi". It is their way of pardon me, aboloshing their feeling of insecurity and bagging converts because from the stats - and believe me I have done days and nights worth of readings about ahmadis for personal reasons - the majority of the converts they seem to bag are the mass recruitment of africans who are very very uneducated about islam and in exchange for living aid accept the jamaat blindly or people in love, who to be with the person they love will go as far as converting (I am not saying none of them believe in the jamaat after converting - it is very much possible but definitly a prospective marriage is the trigger for conversion). Yet ahmadi's complain they have been alienated, complain they are victims of ostracism when infact they desire/invite this seclusion and isolation themselves. Your khalifa himself promotes social boycotting, forbids you to make non-ahmadi friends and then you all whine that you don't get respect. Well maybe if they would stop acting like such a cult and ACTUALLY show love for all and hatred for none, specially no hatred for FELLOW MUSLIMS and not try to avenge and give other sects an eye for an eye by refusing to marry their daughters to them or socializing with them, then maybe things would have been different around here.
Last edited by blessed on 07 Mar 2011, 07:52, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Why Muslim women should not marry into Ahmadis.

Postby blessed » 16 Jan 2011, 00:06

EDIT
Last edited by blessed on 30 Apr 2011, 15:22, edited 4 times in total.
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