Shaykh Hamza Yusuf on Qadianis and Lahoris

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If any scholar can be described as “moderate”, it’s Shaykh Hamza Yusuf. He, like many enlightened scholars, is not drawn to takfir, and is as inclusive as it gets. However, when it comes to drawing a line, his opinion is to be respected and he recently clarified his position on both the Qadiani and Lahori sects.

Al-Azhar has ruled that both sects are outside of Islam, and I accept the ruling of the former rector and mufti, Shaykh Al-Azhar, Gad al-Haqq, may God have mercy on him. I am very cautious of takfir, but if a body as meticulous as Al-Azhar issues an official position about a group, we are obliged to concede to them. I have great respect for the balance and moderate tradition that Al-Azhar represents and know that they do not take takfirlightly. Hence, I defer such judgment to them, and retract my previous statement. As the saying goes, “The people of Mecca are more familiar with their mountain trails.”

Clearly, Shaykh Hamza accepts the ruling of Al-Azhar, who themselves are inclusive and not inclined to takfirism.

We urge all readers to read Shaykh Hamza Yusuf’s piece on Qadianis and Lahoris. There can be absolutely no doubt that all the schools of Islam consider Ahmadiyya not just outside the pale of Islam, but a fitna. With the recent hate-stirring, trouble-making piece in the Guardian, it’s clear that Ahmadiyya’s biggest aim is to cause trouble, to increase sectarian tension and to throw mud against the mainstream body of Islam. Shaykh Hamza lets us know in no uncertain terms that no matter what the Qadianis claim, that their religion is not Islam and never can be. 

 

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67 thoughts on “Shaykh Hamza Yusuf on Qadianis and Lahoris

  1. There was a disturbed ahmadi I met online who insisted that hamza yusuf didnt regard ahmadiyya as kufr. I hope he reads the statement and wakes up.

  2. Salaam,

    Can you please explain to me the wisdom of Allah in His sending a fitna and dajjal and liar (God forbid) in the 14th Islamic century (19th Christian century) at a time of weakness for Islam and strength of Christianity and Atheism and material/wordly progress?

    • 1) You are asking us to explain the wisdom of Allah? That’s really quite an incredible thing to ask. May Allah give us refuge from assuming that we could ever attain to His Wisdom!

      2) There have been plenty of other liars and deceivers, some more recent, and many more successful than Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani al-kazzab, ad-dajjal.

      3) The point on the strength or weakness of Islam is irrelevant. 100 years after the Qadiani impostor’s death, the ummah is weaker still! Allah gives victory to nations in turns. Our job as Muslims is to remain patient. Mirza accomplished nothing other than deceive a few people into following him whilst worshipping the British Raj. As for atheism and secularism, it’s never been stronger. The strength of Christianity in India massively increased during Mirza’s tenure as a grand deceiver. (See one of my old YouTube videos on this called “Breaking Crosses” if you can stomach it)

      • 1) Actually I asked a very simple question. Sadly your condition resembles the condition of most Ahmadis in that they are being held captive: you by your scholars and Ahmadis by their Nizam.

        Nobody claimed we can know the full Wisdom of Allah God forbid. I only asked that you apply your mind a little. Why can’t we apply our minds in matters of faith in a reasonable manner?

        2) To that type of logic, all I can say is what Quran says, which is the eternal truth: “And the end is for the righteous” (28:83)

        3) Ahmadis say the same thing as you do – we need to remain patient and continue to wait. So should we all keep waiting until generations and generations pass away and remain in the same state as before? What good will that do for any of us?

        • You asked a provocative question. I gave you a reasonable answer, which you largely ignored, doing the old straw man trick of just focussing on one aspect, creating a fuss about it and ignoring the rest of my answer.

          You respond with some snide rhetoric. How about you stop with the snide stuff and engage? That’d be nice.

        • You said that the Nizaam is holding the Ahmadiya relgion captive – but – (unless I am wrong on this) – isn’t the Nizaam meant to be ‘heavenly’ inspired to run the ‘religion of God’?

          Secondly – as regards to the Muslims being held captive by the scholars of the religion – it is rather that we have left the scholars – and so we face most the problems that you see right now.
          The prophet (saw) said that they (the ulema) are the inheritors of the prophets – thus, when we as a body turn back to the real scholars – inshaAllah, many of our problems will leave

          wa Allahu alam

          • Assalaamo Alaikum,

            First point: You have correctly understood the issue. A “nizam” can only be heavenly inspired when it obeys Shariah (and in the case of the Jama’at of HMGA, they should additionally obey his directives) otherwise how can a nizam claim to be from God?

            Based on my limited knowledge of history, during the early period of the Ummayad Caliphate there was said the same thing, i.e. that we are the righteous Khalifas, etc. Now look how we honor and love and respect Hadhrat Imam Hussein (as) for his Jihad against Yazid.

            Second point: Shaykh Hamza Yusuf made an honest opinion regarding MMA and his translation of Quran, and then he had to backtrack and take away that honest opinion due to pressures from various scholars and others. So this is called being held in captivity, that is, one cannot speak his or her mind honestly while fearing God without being pressured and forced to change the honest opinion.

            It happens all the time to politicians, for example.

            So, I pray that Allah saves all Muslims from such captivity so that the religion and righteousness and brotherhood can flourish.

          • Nasir,

            No, he heard the opinions of some people regarding Muhammad ‘Ali and then heard the opinion of others regarding Muhammad ‘Ali. You are assuming it was an “honest opinion” when it supports the Qadiani faith, but a pressure from outsiders when it is against the Qadiani faith. To me, this is a sign that you’re not open-minded to the possibility that Qadianism could be wrong.

            And, do not insinuate that Shaykh Hamza Yusuf is a “politician”, he has been called things for decades, including by personal friends. Frankly, I think the Qadiani community in general appreciate someone like him.

          • @ Farhan

            Actually I did not appreciate his complimenting MMA and his works while at the same time not giving a fair assessment of HMGA and his works.

            Sorry I did not mean to insinuate that he was a politician. I was just giving an example of a person being held captive so that people could understand what I was trying to say. I don’t him that well so I can’t comment on his beliefs other than what I have recently read.

    • @Nasir,
      We were fore warned about this by our holy Prophet Muhammad s.a.w.s. As far as reasoning wisdom of Allah s.w.t., I would be more concerned with the warning and stay as far as possible from this FITNA as life in hereafter is more important to me that this materialistic worldly life.

      Hadith:
      Prophet (Peace be upon him) said: There will arise 30 grand Liars (Dajjal) from my Ummah, each of them will claim that he is the Prophet whereas “I AM KHATAM AN NABIYEEN AND THERE IS NO PROPHET AFTER ME” [Sunnan Tirimdhi , Hadith # 2202]

      • The Hadith is okay, but the Holy Prophet (saw) also definitely predicted that a Nabi will appear in the Ummah. So the Hadith you mention cannot apply for that person.

        There may be 30 before him who claim Nubuwwat, but not a single one of them claimed to be Masih Isa Ibn-e-Maryam, so they must be false in their claim as the Hadith states.

        As far as that Nabi is concerned, you say it is literally the same Isa Ibn-e-Maryam from Bani Israel who lived 2,000 years ago who will come back. You claim it based on a number of Hadith.

        We say he will appear amongst the Muslims who by obeying Quran and obeying the Holy Prophet (saw) would be granted the rank of Nubuwwat by God so that Islam triumphs in the later ages. We claim it based on a number of verses of Quran (some of which I had referred to elsewhere) as well as a number of Hadith.

        This is as simple as I can make it. I hope you can understand.

        I don’t know, but is this issue of Nubuwwat the main concern or issue you have with us? Or is there some other major issue that makes you upset with us besides this?

        Ws,
        Nasir M.

        • “…but the Holy Prophet (saw) also definitely predicted that a Nabi will appear in the Ummah”

          Sorry – where is this hadith?

          • @ Abu Musa

            The Holy Prophet (saw) predicted that Isa Ibn-e-Maryam will descend in the Ummah.

            Isa Ibn-e-Maryam is a Nabi beyond any shadow of a doubt according to Quran and Hadith.

            Therefore, the Holy Prophet (saw) has predicted that a Nabi will appear in the Ummah.

            @ Abu Iman

            You may cite that Hadith to say that Isa and Imam Mahdi will be different people. But please do not fault me or consider me as non-Muslim for saying that they are the same per the Hadith from Ibn-e-Majah “There is no Mahdi except Isa”

            @ Peace

            Please read the following Hadith from Bukhari:

            1. Book #54, Hadith #462 & Book #55, Hadith #648

            vs.

            2. Book #55, Hadith #649 & #650

            This is why we believe the same Isa Ibn-e-Maryam who lived on the earth about 2,000 is not the same Isa Ibn-e-Maryam who has been predicted to descend in the later ages of Islam.

            @ Farhan

            By the Grace of God I do not fall into any of the categories you have described

            Ws,
            Nasir M.

          • Can I ask you then to show me a hadith of the prophet (saw) saying that the door of prophethood is still open for many more prophets to come?

          • I want to qualify my statement.

            The Muslims belief that Isa (as) will return. You must also remember, the Islamic religion holds that Isa (as) is still alive and descends as he was when he was taken to the heavens by Allah (swt).

            This is and cannot be used as an evidence to say – well the religions says that prophets are going to come because Isa (as) will return. This is the same argument used over and over again. Mirza Gullam claimed to be Isa – thus for a quick second got out of the loop hole by being able to claim prophethood – however, he then claimed something radical – that prophethood is still open to anyone who literally obeys Allah (swt) and His messenger (saw).

            Even according to you there have been countless prophets – before Mirza and probably after him.

            Leaving the issue of Isa (as) aside – the Muslims from the time of Muhammad (saw) until now have agreed unanimously that no one can be a prophet (new) – yet, the Ahmadiyya (Qadiyani) side say this is so well established in the religion by quoting the verse in Nisaa and some other points here and there.

            Therefore – the request I have – can you show me a hadith, clear crystal that shows the door of prophethood is still open. Something that can counter the tens of hadith that we have stating the opposite?

            Wa Allahu alam

          • @ Abu Musa

            The point about Isa (as) being physically alive is debatable. We believe that the Quran (and some Hadith) establish him as having died like a normal human being and like every other prophet. Then we use other references from Quran and Hadith to prove that the Isa promised to appear in the latter days will be a Muslim from among the Ummah and not the same Isa. Thus, our beliefs clear any potential contradiction and we support our beliefs from Quranic teachings and take interpretations of Hadith which are not opposed to Quranic teachings.

            Our belief is that Quran is perfect and pure and its authenticity cannot be compared to any Hadith. Based on that principle, we interpret the Hadith in light of Quranic teachings to prove that Prophets will continue to come in the future. I am not sure of any “crystal clear” hadith about many prophets coming in the Ummah in the future, but I think Surah Fatihah + 4.69 is crystal clear enough.

            We should not use interpretations of Hadith to dictate Quranic teachings. We should use Quranic teachings to validate intrepretations of Hadith.

            I should clarify my earlier statements about prophets appearing in the past. There have been many Muslims in the past who received divine communication/revelation (which is the meaning of being a Nabi) per the blessings that the Ummah prays for in Surah Fatihah, but those people were not called Nabis (they were called other names, like Khalifa or Mujaddid). This was because it was necessary that the honor and rank of Holy Prophet (saw) as Khatamun Nabiyyeen should be firmly established in the Ummah and not get confused. Hence the many Hadith about no prophets after the Holy Prophet (saw) and that there would be 30 liars claiming Nubuwwat, etc. Now you can see that it happened like that.

            After so much time passed, it became necessary to prove to the whole world that Islam is a living religion and that the blessings of Islam and of the living prophet the Holy Prophet (saw) which we pray for in Surah Fatihah are available in the greatest degree, and available only to Muslims. Thus that Nabi who was to appear (i.e., Isa) was to advent at that time, i.e. at the time when the promise in Surah Fath (about dominance of Islam over all other religions) was to be fulfilled.

            So, the claimant of Isa would of course be a Nabi because Isa is a Nabi per Quran and the word Nabi was used to describe his future advent per Sahih Muslim.

            So why all the insults for the lone claimant of Isa? If we do and say whatever the scholars and others are telling us to do and say as Ahmadis, we would be full of contradictions and should be considered as hypocrites.

            The reality is, we cover every belief of ours with explanation from Quran and Hadith. I wonder how that can produce an edict of kufr against us by scholars of the religion?

            Ws,
            Nasir M.

        • I cannot fathom how anyone sincere can come to such a conclusion. There is no hadith which says another prophet will come. The explicit ayah says the prophet is the ‘khatam(khatim) an nabiyeen(last of the prophets). Nabi encompasses, law and non law bearing prophets. Anyone who denies this, is denying the Quran and by definition denies Islam. 100s of hadith claim ‘no prophet will come after me’. Its all explicit. Hadith talk about Esa bin Maryam returning not Mirza bin ‘x’. Esa will tell Imam mahdi to lead the prayer, which confirms Imaam Mahdi and Esa are 2 distinct individuals. There is no other case, its so straightforward, irrefutable. Ive discussed this with many qadianis and they are speechless, there is no explicit proof for these misguided beliefs of qadianis. May Allah guide us to the truth.

          • Im replying to my own point to reply to Mr Nasirs comment above as I cant reply to that comment technically for some reason.

            The hadith you mention is daeef. One cannot contradict all the other hadith talking about esa and mahdi with a weak hadith, Only a person with an alterior motive would do that. Sincerity is key, without that a person can cling onto any obscure saying to prove any point he wants. Explicit, authentic comments only please, not implicit, weak statements. A faith based on weak and implicit is no faith at all

          • @ Abu Iman

            Salaam

            A weak hadith is not a false hadith, right? A weak hadith is still a hadith.

            In the Ummah, there is a person who has claimed the he is Imam Mahdi and Masih (i.e., they are one person). His Jama’at has survived for over 100 years after his passing away despite any of its shortcomings, no matter how severe they have been.

            Thus in my view, that weak hadith becomes a strong hadith because what it says has actually literally happened. So from my perspective, any hadith which speaks about Masih conversing with Imam Mahdi would have an allegorical meaning. Allegories are accepted as a reasonable means of communication by all educated people.

            I agree with you that we should not base our beliefs solely on obscurities. I as an Ahmadi base my beliefs on a set of explicit statements, but we also have access to implied statements and inferences which serve to increase our knowledge and enhance our faith.

            I never questioned your sincerity, so I do not understand why you question mine?

          • @Nasir M

            The Qur’an is explicit on whether we should pursue “obscurities” as you put them. On the one hand we have an enormous, uncompromised, multiply verified, logically supported, consistently uniform on the unqualified finality of prophethood of the Prophet Muhammad (saw) and on the other, you have obscurities that Ahmadiyya relies on to deceive its followers.

            If you want to see just how incoherent Ahmadiyya is, you only have to study the 1974 National Assembly records, which are now publicly available. Mirza Nasir was to put it frankly, annihilated. He had nowhere to run, nowhere to hide the utterly incongruous nature of Ahmadiyya doctrine.

            Sure, Ahmadiyya as a cult still survives, as does Baha`ism, Sikhism and many other relatively new religions, many of them in a better state than Ahmadiyya in almost every metric you could measure.

          • @ Shahid

            Salaam

            I too have seen the 1974 report, and agree that MNA was weak in his defense of our beliefs in some places, actually some of the things he said were opposite of the beliefs of HMGA, even the attorney general figured that out.

            Anyway, it is depressing but I believe this event has been foretold in one of the dreams of HMGA. In that same dream, there is a glad tiding that the sad situation will be resolved by a strong and righteous person who would appear at a later time, inshallah.

            You can think of the situation like this, that there were many leaders in early Islam who were insulting and cursing Hadhrat Ali (as) for about 60 years. How depressing it feels to know that a beloved like him was cursed like that!

            Then a righteous Khalifa named Hadhrat Umar bin Abdul Aziz (ra) came and rectified the situation and did a wonderful service for Islam.

            What people have found when studying history is that it repeats itself.

            Ws,
            Nasir M.

        • @Nasir,

          Please do an independent study and do not depend on interpretations of Ahmadiyya molvies. I admire your earlier statements where you admitted that they do not speak truth as they are paid by center.

          With no disrespect and sorry to hurt your feelings, the Hadith of 30 grand liars ….applies to Mirza Sahib also, as he was proven liar and a liar cannot be a nabi, masih or mahdi……..

          Further, re: “The Hadith is okay, but the Holy Prophet (saw) also definitely predicted that a Nabi will appear in the Ummah…..”

          There is no such Hadith from Holy Prophet s.a.w.s.

          The second coming applies to Isa Ibn e maryam a.s., who is not Mirza Ghulam Ahmad. If Ahmadiyya molvies think that Mirza is Isa a.s then prove how it is possible? Is there is single Hadith to prove? What about the abundance of authentic Hadith stating return of Hadrath Isa Ibn e Maryam a.s?

          Please reflect upon this as this is a serious matter of faith.

          Wasalaam.

          • I don’t think its a matter of doing an “independent study”. It is IMPOSSIBLE to remove oneself from his or her biases. Nasir has probably been taught since childhood that Muslims are all backwards, prone to violence, and that Qadianism is the only light and how lucky he is to be one. Muslims who are minorities often are taught the same thing living in the West. One’s intellect is just a cover for an emotional connection to being Qadiani, and thinking of oneself as superior to the Muslims.

            I think in psychology this is called Inoculation, but I’m not certain. Most people I know who leave Qadianism for Islam do so because of two reasons:
            A) They see Islam first-hand and that its superior to Qadianism. This only works on people who don’t have that “They’re all molvies!” mentality. My experience is that Western Qadianis are more prone to this reason for acceptance, including my personal friends.

            B) People who find problems with Qadianism. This is usually, but not always, because they see the religion as corrupted. Just cuz a guy has a goatee + a jinnah cap and is given some silly title doesn’t mean anything.

            From my experience, arguments are useless. I once showed a Qadiani grammatically incorrect “revelation”. He said I was lying. Then I showed him the source, and he said it was a typo or editors mistake. When it was confirmed to not be an editors mistake, he said Allah can reveal however he pleases, its me who is wrong. Literally nothing I showed him would have affected him.

            We have to be aware of this kind of psychology – and again, this isn’t unique to Qadianis, this is universal even to Muslims.

          • @ Farhan

            When I said above that I do not fall into any of the categories you described, I meant the ones you mentioned in the first paragraph

            Anyway, please let me know which revelation you are talking about so I can research the matter. I might learn something new. Thanks

        • @Nasir,
          “I don’t know, but is this issue of Nubuwwat the main concern or issue you have with us? Or is there some other major issue that makes you upset with us besides this?”

          Leaving aside our personal issues with Ahmadiyyat, the main issues are the same on which basis this Jamaat was declared outside the fold of Islam (unanimously) and I believe your jamaat knows well what those issues are, so I do not need to repeat it here.

          I would like to put the same question to you and what makes you upset with us, and that your jamaat has nothing better to do except attack Muslims and their Countries at every opportunity? They lie that they are defending Islam while they are fabricating its core teachings to suit their whims and fancies and serve their masters. I repeat again that Ahmadiyyat is a fitna and until you open your mind and study it you will not get it. A lot of Ahmadis who reverted to Islam admitted that when they did an independent study they found exactly what the Muslims were warning them of. So I have still no doubt in my mind that you need to do an independent study and ask Allah s.w.t. for guidance and inshaAllah it will come.
          WS

          • Salaam,

            Sorry, I will never be a part of a Muslim group that considers another Muslim group as Kafir without any genuine reason because I do not want that curse to rebound back at me.

            I consider other Muslims as Kafir only if they consider HMGA as Kafir or consider as Muslims those who consider him as Kafir, which is according to the teaching of the Holy Prophet (saw) as found in Hadith. In my opinion, takfir is that simple – why take the risk of calling another as kafir? Is it really worth it? What benefit do you get compared to the risk you take in doing so?

            My only plea is to stop considering us as Kafir just because we say Masih has come, or whatever else you may disagree with. Consider us as whatever else you like, e.g. weak Muslims, stupid Muslims, etc. but not Kafirs.

            Regarding our leadership, all I can say is that it is extremely depressing for me to see them display enmity against Muslims like they do with press releases, etc. trying to get favor with the West. This is absolutely not what HMGA advised his Jama’at to do.

            On the other hand, Muslim groups also express hatred and enmity towards us in a different way, so all I see are two groups trying to insult each other. I know it sounds cheesy, but can’t we all just get along? I do not want the Quran to be an evidence against me and you when it says that the people of Hell are those who fight amongst themselves.

            Ws,
            Nasir M.

          • You are part of the Ahmadiyya. As I showed you before, but which you all too conveniently ignored, your cult’s leadership considers all Muslims to be kuffar, because we reject your prophet, who we consider a charlatan, a deceiver, an impostor and a false messiah, one of the many impostors we were warned of by the Last Prophet (saw).

            Our site’s official policy is that we won’t make takfeer on individuals, we don’t have the authority to do that, but there is absolutely no doubt that Ahmadiyya is kufr, and our ulama are united in that.

          • @ Nasir M

            Any person who claims to be a prophet of Allah…..he will be called Kafir..sorry.

            Remember…Sir Syed also believed that Esa (as) died and than Esa (as) had a biological father, however, he was still a Muslim..

            MGAQ went too far and impersonated a prophet of Allah in an attempt to make money.

          • @ Shahid

            Over time, leadership generally strays away from the foundation and origin and becomes rebellious. This is nothing new and has been indicated in the Holy Quran and also a Hadith from Sahih Muslim.

            I have not ignored what you said. I have stated at least once that what these people are doing today is totally against the instructions of HMGA. Why do you decide to insult him for what they are doing against his teachings?

            Regarding your comment on takfir. How can a group be considered as one thing, and its individuals something else? If you consider the group as kafir, you must necessarily consider a majority of the individuals as the same.

          • It’s not just what individuals are doing today. I cited your founder and his sons.

            As for takfir, you will not tempt me down that erroneous path. An ideology (if you can consider Ahmadiyya that) can be kufr, but that gives no lay person the authority to make takfir on individuals. It’s actually Islam 101, but when in the cloistered mind set of Ahmadiyya, it’s necessary to step outside of it to use logic that has no basis in Ahmadiyya, or Islam to make points, which leaves you on somewhat shaky ground. Importantly, to consider a majority of Qadianis and Lahoris to be on kufr is not the same thing as making takfir on them. We are told by Allah (SWT) to make enquiries. We made our enquiries as an ummah. We found Ahmadiyya to be kufr. As I’ve found though, there are many Qadianis and Lahoris who simply don’t know what their beliefs are or what their prophet/leader taught them.

          • Well said brother shahid. Ahmadiyyat is Kufr. Mirza Ghulam Sahib was an imposter and a false messiah. The true Messiah in both Islam and Christianity is Isa ibn-e Maryam (peace be upon him). By believing in Mirza as messiah you negate the status of Isa a.s. and one more reason why are out of fold of Islam.

          • @ Shahid

            That is fine, I accept your clarification of the difference between ideology and people. My mistake.

            HMGA never explicitly said that the whole Ummah is kafir. He said that a Muslim will be held accountable for his disbelief in him based on his claim as Imam Mahdi and Masih. If he said anything else, it was not meant to be an open license for his followers to pronounce takfir on other Muslims.

            The statement of his sons or anybody else are their own opinions.

            Based on what I have read, Khalifa II’s statements on this topic were not of an absolute nature, but of the nature which is mentioned in Hadith that the Holy Prophet (saw) had said that he who helps an unjust leader puts himself out of the “millat” of Islam. It was only in that context.

            @Peace

            Please ponder over this. Hadhrat Musa’s Masih was Isa Ibne-Maryam, a man from his own Ummah. Why can’t the Holy Prophet (saw) have his Masih come from his own Ummah who would be like a beloved son which he never had in his lifetime? Thus there is no derogation of the rank of Hadhrat Isa; instead, there is an exaltation of the rank of the Holy Prophet (saw).

            Eid Mubarak to all.

            Ws,
            Nasir M.

          • @Nasir – you should read again what you’ve written. You’re adopting a softly softly approach, which is of merit, but none of the Mirzas ever did the same. If you want to remain Qadiani / Lahori (and I would invite you not to), then your views should be consistent with that of the founder and leadership. Your founder said many horrible things about his opponents, including calling them the progeny of prostitutes for not loving his books. I categorically reject his books, I would say his character was not becoming of a gentleman, never mind a prophet. You must therefore make takfir on me. (You see how absurd this position becomes, I’m sure that’s not what you want)

          • @ Shahid

            Sometimes harshness is needed, sometimes gentleness. Maybe in this age, more gentleness is needed.

            His calling his opponents as sons of prostitutes or sons of disobedience, was to portray their spiritual condition, just like you and others do when you call him dajjal, etc.

            Quran has employed similar language, e.g. calling disbelievers as frightened asses fleeing from a lion. It is to reflect their poor and despicable spiritual condition.

            My takfir on you based on what you said is the same as that of HMGA. You will be accountable to God for it, and I leave it at that. If he said that it was revealed to him that a person like in your situation will not be considered as a Muslim, we still leave it to God. It is His determination. Remember that he wrote that in a letter, not as a part of his books, so we must take that into consideration. It was not an open license to start calling the Ummah as kafirs. That was not his intent.

            I love the Muslims because they love the Holy Prophet (saw). It pains me to see that they insult the one who I see as a beloved son of the Holy Prophet (saw).

            Humans make mistakes. Future generations should appreciate the good that the previous generation did, but also correct their mistakes so that righteousness and faith and knowledge and wisdom continue to flourish in every age.

            Ws,
            nasir m.

    • Nasir, Your question is akin to asking the people of Baghdad what was the wisdom of the entire Muslim world being destroyed by the Mongol Horde, while the Buddhist faith was rising and gaining strength worldwide and Muslims were in the dirt.
      Our job isn’t necessarily to recognize the precise wisdom in every act, this would require perfect knowledge. Instead its to recognize that a wisdom *does exist* , ie trust in God.
      Recognize, ya Nasir, that despite the severe problems the Muslim world is facing, this is *mild* compared to the Loss of Al-Andalus (Spain), the Mongol Invasion, the Apostasy Wars, The First Major Fitna and civil war, and the death of the Prophet SAAWS

      • Actually, not really, because all of those events are wordly events (except the passing away of Holy Prophet s.a.w. and there was a lot of wisdom which was gained through that sad day and subsequent events through the leadership of Hadhrat Abu Bakr r.a.).

        I am talking about a spiritual event, i.e. a man being sent to the Ummah by God either as dajjal and liar or as a savior for Islam in its later ages when it was very weak and in need.

        In my opinion, spiritual unrest is far more severe and worrisome to encounter than the worldly unrest you mentioned. This was alluded to by the Holy Prophet (saw) while a particular verse of Quran was being revealed. I cite it here for your benefit:

        Narrated Jabir: When this Verse was revealed: “Say: He has power to send torment on you from above.” (6.65) Allah’s Apostle said, “O Allah! I seek refuge with your face (from this punishment).” And when the verse: “or send torment from below your feet,” (was revealed), Allah’s Apostle said, “(O Allah!) I seek refuge with your face (from this punishment).” (But when there was revealed): “Or confuse you in party strife and make you to taste the violence of one another.” (6.65) Allah’s Apostle said, “This is lighter (or, this is easier).” (Book #60, Hadith #152)

        • You’re asking a dangerous question.

          What you’re basically asking is why would Allah send a Fitnah. The real response to your question is that you should not question the wisdom of Allah. As Imam al-Tahawi says, it isn’t for us to ask Why things happen, because that’s a means of spiritual decline. I know in my own life I’ve experienced what I consider to be injustices that haunt me on a daily basis – literally. When I ask “why did this happen to me?!” it just makes things worse. Instead, I have to accept the event as from of Allah. Understanding the wisdom is an added bonus.

          There is no clean line between worldly events and spiritual events. Every event I mentioned earlier had a major spiritual consequence. The two directly affect each other. For example, when the West African Muslims were taken as slaves to America, a worldly action, in their diaries they lamented that there was a snowball’s chance in hell that their children would grow up as Muslims. To this day, only 1% of African-Americans are Muslims, a clear spiritual consequence.

          If you’re still caught up on this, read Surah Tawba, verse 51: “Say: “Nothing will happen to us except what Allah has decreed for us: He is our protector”: and on Allah let the Believers put their trust.”
          And I should take my own advice.

          • I want to emphasize that this notion that there are distinct Spiritual vs Worldly events is artificial and a premise of a secular philosophy. There are du’as for relieving oneself in the restroom, even that is spiritual. I don’t fault you for having this view, but try to purge it from your system.

            And again, I’ll try to take my own advise.

          • Yes, you are correct, there are spiritual consequences to worldly events. I don’t want to split hairs with you on this matter since it looks like on this issue we believe similarly, so I will leave it at that.

            I appreciate the advice you have referred to from Holy Quran, I agree with it. You reminded me of a Hadith I had just read the other day in Bukhari which nicely supports the advice you gave (i.e. being optimistic and thinking well of Allah in every situation). I thought I would share it with you:

            Narrated Ibn ‘Abbas: Allah’s Apostle entered upon a sick bedouin in whom he went to visit and said to him, “Don’t worry, Tahur (i.e., your illness will be a means of cleansing of your sins), if Allah Will.” The bedouin said, “Tahur! No, but it is a fever that is burning in the body of an old man and it will make him visit his grave.” The Prophet said, “Then it is so.” (Book #93, Hadith #562)

            So what I would like to tell you is that I am optimistic and I think well of Allah and believe that He has decreed triumph for the Ummah at the hands of Masih, and that the Masih came in accordance with many of the prophecies, although I may take some different interpretations of those prophecies than you would in explaining the rationale.

            So I don’t understand why I should be considered as a non-Muslim because of that optimism and thinking well of Allah and hoping for the best instead of thinking all of this which happened is a fitna.

            Ws,
            Nasir M.

  3. Also, please provide the link to the Guardian article referred to above so that I can peruse it (and also assess who the author is). Thanks.

    • Feel free to google it. We’re not going to give hate-mongering trash, recycled year after year by the Qadiani leadership, published by dupe after dupe, any more publicity. Sorry.

  4. From the Muslim World Magazine, Volume 26, 1936. page 85

    “The followers of the self-styled Prophet of Qadian (both the
    sections Lahore Ahmadies and Qadianies) are outside the pale of
    Islam. Mirza Ghulam Ahmad of Qadian had claimed the Prophethood,
    ridiculed Hazrat Masih (Jesus Christ) and did differ from the
    Muslims in several fundamentals. On this basis he is considered
    by all the Ulamas of the Muslim-World as outside the pale of Islam.
    As both the sections believe Mirza Saheb to be Reformer, Divine,
    Massiah, Mehdi and the Imam of the Age, therefore they, like their
    founder, are Kafirs. The Lahore Section also believe in Mirza
    Khulam Ahmad as worthy to be followed are themselves Kafirs too.
    (President Jamiat-Ulama-i-Hind Delhi) sd/ (MUFTI) MOHAMMAKDI FAYATULLAE.”

    See http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1478-1913.1936.tb02346.x/abstract

    Page 85

  5. @nasir

    “your logic” = therefore Bahaism is true.
    annnnnnnnnd…
    what you dont accept him to be a prophet???
    wooah! is you for rejecting a prophet of god like the Israelites!
    Anyone wonder why muslims are in mess??

    lool, you see how your stack of cards falls down with a small fart?

  6. Brother Shahid, I have not read that Guardian Article mentioned in your Blog. Please tell me the date it was published in the Guardian. I would like to read it before making any comment. I am NOT an ahmadi.

  7. His this stance is right but The Muslims should never forget that this guy was clapping hands when that terrorist Bush was talking about bombing Muslims to the stone age.

    I despise him for that!

    Just like that traitor mirzai’s father was ghazal sara in praise of that fat azz queer victoria!

    • You are quite clearly dimwitted, and perhaps of those people who slander Hamza Yusuf out of jealousy. He went to Bush because he was ordered to by his teacher and he never said or did anything to encourage Bush to commit violence against anyone.
      so you idiots need to stop slandering and fear God and curb your malice and jealousy. Hamza Yusuf has done more for muslims than any other scholar in modern times!!!

      • [Note from admin: We won’t permit extended abuse. You both had your say, neither message was nice, we’re drawing a line under it.]
        Well how come you have posted that gamal’s ‘witty’ reply but not mine???

        Let him get some heat!

        Why not post my replies?

  8. Allah alone is the “master of the day of judgement” according to the Holy Quran. The authority has not been delegated to ANYONE. There is no precedent in history that the Holy Prophet SWA declared any person as “non Muslim” although he knew people who were hypocrites. More than once Allah has admonished the Holy Prophet that I have not made you “supervisors” over them. Your mission is to deliver the message .( Holy Quran/ 88:22).
    I have great respect for the Scholars of Islam, but I DO NOT ACCEPT THAT THEY CAN EXPELL ANY PERSON FROM ISLAM. They have already created 73 sects and has eroded their credibility. In my belief system, a Mosque should be a “Haven of Peace” and the doors of each mosque should be open for ALL.

    • @ naushad

      As a matter of Islamic law. Muslims are citizens who pay Zakaat, Non-Muslims are not citizens and pay jizyah.

      Hence, a line of demarcation has to be made as a matter of finance. Now, when Muhammad (saw) was returning from Tabuk, he did burn down a make-shift-mosque in a situation where some people were pretending to be Muslims in an attempt at political gain.

      And lets not forget those people who lied and said they were Muslims during War…who later reverted and proved that they were lying…these are those people whom death is given for apostacy.

      Any other questions?

    • @Naushad,
      Please follow the chain of authentic Islam and you will never go wrong. What were the actions taken by Prophet Muhammad s.a.w.s and Hazrat Abubakr Siddiq r.a. regarding the false claimants of prophethood and their followers? Hope you get the point.

  9. I was really upset that Shaykh Hamza Yusuf said the Lahoris are not kafirs and he praised Muhammad Ali’s translation of the Quran. Alhumdulillah it’s good to see he has researched further into this issue

      • i saw the comments on youtube some muslims did get over emotional and stupidly made takfeer on him, there is a difference on this if someone does not understand the reality of the cult then you can’t say such things, it is the duty of Muslims to make other Muslims aware, we all make mistakes and where there are mistakes it is a collective effort to correct them.
        Similarly (you can check with an alim) if someone who knows the reality of Mirza Qadiani’s dawah and still does not declare him or his followers out of the fold of Islam then the fatawa of kufr comes upon them, because they are indicating that Mirza was truthful in his claims.

        • Sorry, but logic and common sense does not work in the way you described in your last statement.

          “If you believe that HMGA is truthful, then you do not believe him to be a kafir.” This logically correct statement is of the structure “if A, then B.”

          You cannot conclude from this that “B, therefore A” (i.e., “you do not believe HMGA to be kafir, therefore you believe he is truthful”). This is the most basic logical fallacy there is.

          Question: If a Sunni does not consider Shias as Kafirs, does that mean you believe they are correct and truthful in what they say? Do you see how much harm has been created for the Ummah by this way of thinking?

      • Br Naushad Ali
        In light of what you posted earlier, would you kindly like to share your understanding of the following 2 quotes. Jazak’allah Khairan.

        “God has revealed it to me that the person who did not believe in me after having heard about me is not a Muslim.”
        (Al-Fazl, Qadian, Jan 15, 1935 – Al-Hukum, 4:24, Mirza Ghulam Qadiani)

        Every such person who believes in Moses but not in Jesus, or believes in Jesus but not in Muhammad (peace be upon him), or believes in Muhammad but not in the Promised Messiah, is not only a kafir but a staunch kafir and is excluded from the fold of Islam.” kalimatul fasl pg 110 Mirza Bashir MA

        Have they not declared 1.8bln muslims as out of the fold of Islam?

        • @ ik8385

          You presented a reference from Al-Fazl of 1935. Do you have a scan of that? Do you then have 2 page before and one after? What article is this from? I mean…what was the full article about? Who was the author?

          This is very significant…this quote originates from the letter that MGAQ wrote to Dr. Khan in 1906.

          Please respond

        • Brother ik8385,
          Yes they have declared more than 1.5 billions “non Musllim”. May I please ask you, do we muslims have to sink to the same level? No sir. Their prophet and Kalifas have sown the seeds of hatred, disharmony, greed and
          conflict. They are now reaping the rich crop of what they deserve. We muslims however have to set an example and send out only love and blessings.

  10. @oTruthUnveiledo
    Any person who believes in Allah and The Holy Prophet MuhammadSAW
    CANNOT be called a Kafir. That is my belief.

    • well, your belief is wrong. If someone believes in Allah SWT and Rasulullah Sallallaahu Alayhi Wassallam but says Alcohol is Halal are they still Muslim? It is the same for those who deny Hajj, Zakah, Salah and Saum. Denying what is obligatory and making Haraam Halal or vice versa takes a person out of Islam. Islam comes with conditions it does’t come with your emotions and what you think is best. Islam is not made of your own interpretation, it is to be fully accepted by what Rasulullah Sallallaahu Alayhi Wassallam taught and by what his companions believed.

      “So if they believe in the same as YOU BELIEVE in, then they have been [rightly] guided; but if they turn away, they are only in dissension, and Allah will be sufficient for you against them. And He is the Hearing, the Knowing.” [2:137]

      “And when it is said to them, “Believe as the PEOPLE have believed,” they say, “Should we believe as the foolish have believed?” Unquestionably, it is they who are the foolish, but they know [it] not.” [2:13]

      “And whoever opposes the MESSENGER after guidance has become clear to him and follows other than the WAY OF THE BELIEVERS – We will give him what he has taken and drive him into Hell, and evil it is as a destination.” [4:115]

      5. And, [moreover], this is My path, which is straight, so follow it; and do not follow [other] ways, for you will be separated from His way. This has He instructed you that you may become righteous. [6:153]

    • Well Naushad, if this is what you believe, then according to your leader, Ghulam Ahmad, you have just completely gone against the teachings of Allah and have placed your own understanding above Allah’s.

      Your leader, Ghulam Ahmad, who you follow and wholeheartedly believe is the Promised Messiah and the burooz of Muhammad (pbuh) clearly stated:

      “God Almighty has conveyed it to me that every person to whom my call is conveyed and who does not accept me is not a Muslim and is accountable to God for his default (Letter addressed to Dr. Abdul Hakeem).” Found in the Ahmadi book “Tadhkirah” fourth edition, year 2004, page 745.

      Two very important points to keep in mind here.

      1) MGA said that ALLAH revealed this to him. Meaning, it is not his own opinion that people who do not believe in him are no longer Muslims, but this is actually Allah’s belief. Remember, MGA said, “God Almighty has conveyed it to me that…” Again, he is showing that this has nothing to do with his own opinion. Rather this is the order of Allah (istagfurlah)

      2) MGA did not say that Allah told him that such people who deny him are kafir. Oh No! MGA said that Allah told him that such people are not even MUSLIM! Meaning they are now COMPLETELY outside the pale of Islam. This goes beyond calling someone kafir.

      So Naushad, when you say,

      “Any person who believes in Allah and The Holy Prophet Muhammad SAW CANNOT be called a Kafir. That is my belief.”

      You, according to MGA, are actually completely going against the word of Allah who, according to MGA, does not hold your belief to be valid at all! Is Allah not more knowledgeable than you? In fact, you would be deemed a blasphemer for your statement.

      Please reflect on this statement of MGA and see how illogical it is and reflect on how Allah would never reveal such a statement and how MGA is false.

      May Allah have mercy and may He guide us all. Ameen.

      • Dear R.O.L.
        I am not an Ahmadi, have never been one, and have no intention to become one of them. Therefore I suggest that you please read my earlier posts in the light of what I have stated above.
        Being Urdu literate I have read many of MGA’s writings and have always felt disgusted at what I have read.

    • @Naushad,
      So you agree Mirza Ghulam and Mirza Basheer were wrong in declaring Muslims as Kafir?

      • @peace
        Yes I have read this Urdu books and also what the biggest liar of them all, Bashir ud Din Mahmud, said on the subject.

  11. Assalamu Aleikum,

    Very very nice article. When I left Ahmadiyya, it was the teachings of Sheikh Hamza Yusuf that had first given me such a beautiful taste of Islam. I was stunned by his incredible depth of knowledge and his way of mercifully interacting with Muslims and Non-Muslims alike. His (Sheikh Hamza Yusuf) has a depth of knowledge that, to this day, I have yet to see an Ahmadi possess.

    May Allah reward Sheikh Hamza for his contributions to this ummah and may Allah guide Ahmadis out of their way of error before it is too late. And death is when it it too late. Ameen.

    May Allah also reward those who contribute to this blog. May He reward them and forgive them any sins they may have. May Allah forgive all of us our sins and may peace be upon His beloved Muhammad. Ameen.

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