An Overview of Imam Al-Ghazali

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63 thoughts on “An Overview of Imam Al-Ghazali

  1. Over 100 years of ahmadiyya, and they havent managed to produce anyone to the calibre of Hamza Yusuf, a man who is the product of sunni scholarship.
    Yet the ahmadiyya khalifa born and bred in the jamat cant recite the quran properly, has memorised nothing of the quran, cant read dua in arabic, cant read, write, or speak arabic, and they say he is the most learned man amongst them
    He cant even deliver a speech without a script and even then he sounds like an unrehearsed child, fumbling and bumbling through the whole thing.
    Mirza Masroor shows what the level of Islamic revival ahmadiyya has to offer the world, and it is an abysmal bad joke!

    • There are tons of scholars in the Jama’ah who know full Fus’ha Arabic, have read and analyzed the classical texts of Islam, know Tasawwuf, and Western traditions, just like Sh. Hamza Yusuf.

      I personally know one who is getting a Ph.D in Sufi Tafsir, and another who studied at al-Azhar University in Qahirah, Mysr.

      Ignorance breeds prejudice.

      • I know you appreciate and respect intellectualism, and that’s a good thing. There’s goodness in reading, analyzing, studying, etc.

        Two things.
        First, I know you know Mirza Masroor makes tons of basic mistakes, such as his inability to read Arabic properly, doesn’t start his khutbahs properly (does not follow the fiqh of jumu’ah) and so on. You are more learned than him. Why don’t you see anything wrong with that? Why isn’t Masroor the one with the PhD in philosophy or what not? Why is his ignorance not a problem for you?

        Sh Hamza is citing Imam al-Ghazali as saying that these things, reading and studying, aren’t an objective. Al-Ghazali was criticizing the scholars who think their academia is what’s bringing them closer to Allah. He was a master of reason and logic, yet, completely disregarded intellectualism as the primary approach to Allah – in his later books, he writes that ‘aqidah is only a cure when a person’s intellect is afflicted…

        So, getting a PhD is respectable, I can admire that. But, any orientalist can get one. Hell, they invented PhDs! The question he has is, why, with its alleged ‘saved-sect’ status, 200 million converts, and ‘khalifah’ can it not produce a man like Shaykh Hamza Yusuf, who, btw, is one of the most intense person’s I’ve ever met.

        One thing – The Ahmadis you seem to associate with are not exactly mainstream Ahmadis (I don’t know how else to phrase that). Why do you feel more credibility in an Al-Azhar or Mahad al-Fath over, say, Jamia-e-Ahmadiyya? Shouldn’t Mirza Ghulam Ahmad’s works be studied before Rumi?

        • Hadhrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad’s (as) books SHOULD be studied before Rumi. And that is why all the scholars of the Jama’ah who travel to learn under Sunni shuyookh only do so after first gaining an understanding of the Promised Messiah’s (as) books. This includes those who learn on their own or through Jami’ah al-Ahmadiyyah.

          • Then why do you yourself study Rumi before Mirza Ghulam? Why are you more interested in learning about famous Muslim personalities, citing their books, texts, etc, before Mirza Ghulam? In fact, you yourself respect non-mainstream Ahmadis who learn from Islam’s intellectual tradition more than Ahmadis who have only read Mirza Ghulam.

          • I studied most of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad’s (as) books well before I even looked at any other saint or Wali Allah’s books.

      • It is interesting that there is a follower of your religion studying at Al-Azhar – since Al-Azhar itself has an official ruling that those following the religion of Mirza Gullam are non-Muslims.

        I wonder how he felt about taking his knowledge from people that declare his beliefs as something that is not Islamic…

        • al-Azhar has had many different forms of leadership. Some believed Ahmadis are kuffar, some believed we are Muslims (Shaykh Tantawi for instance). Shuyookh of al-Azhar have also even accepted Ahmadiyyah and become Ahmadi Muslims (not just one Shaykh but many; I know one personally).

          • Have you got quotes for Tantawi & these ‘other shayookh’ acceeping your religion as Islam, or even becomming Ahmediyyas?
            I would love to go and ask them inshaAllah

            As for the official position of Al-Azhar/Dar Al-Ifta Islam is a religion and Ahmediyya is another

          • I personally know a scholar who studied at al-Azhar for over 8 years and was in the College of Shari’ah and became an Ahmadi.

          • I ask you please to be careful when using statements:

            First of all – when you say Skayookh of Azhar – they are not people who have studied some years in Egypt – yes, he may have some knowledge, but he is not a ‘Scholar of Azhar’ (far from it I imagine). The shayookh of Azhar have positions in the University – or on their fatwa boards – or they teach in the Masjid Al-Azhar. They have been studying/teaching the deen for more years then most of us have been alive

            Secondly – To get into the University of Al-Azhar can sometimes take up to 8 years – thats before you even start to learn from the Jamia’ itself – so how much he studied in that 8 years is v.important to distinguish. There are some people in my class that have been studying in Azhar 8 years, or 7 years and they are still to enter the University Sharia faculty

            Finally – if he is still in Egypt – can you give me his number – I would love to speak to him about it to see how he can justify the belief that the door of prophethood is still open

            p.s. – in Egypt – they actually call you guys Qadiyanis – our exam paper last year asked us to write about ‘Qadiyani’s’ – i.e. how they are not Muslim and why – I can send you the paper if you want.
            This shows you how the OFFICIAL position of Al-Azhar – we are asked to write in our Azhar end of year exam how and why you left Islam…
            I only use the Ahmediyya – to be kind – as I know that the Ahmediyya dont like the term Qadiyani

      • What are you mullahs doing studying in al Azhar when you consider sunni muslims kafir?
        and please dont try and lie and tell us you dont consider them kafir.
        maybe you should send mullah masroor to go learn something

        • This “stupid ignorance” led to a great and honourable act of ‘Ibadah, whereupon Seyyidina Mirza Masroor Ahmad used his agricultural knowledge to allow wheat to grow for the first time in Ghana, forever changing their lives and providing food for needy people.

          • It doesn’t taken an ‘Alim to do ‘Ibadah. But his only education is in farming, maybe he should be on a farm.

            Other than by blood, what business does he have as a ‘Khalifah’?

          • ^ What??

            So, a person who has only a basic understanding of Islamic law but is extremely righteous can be the khalifah, even if he has no idea about Islamic law beyond his life?

            Do you not see the problem with that?

  2. Thank you for sharing Sh. Hamza Yusuf video, very inspiring and I watched it twice.

    Mirza Masroor is no comparison to most of the Muslim scholers, he lacks knowledge and charisma.

  3. I like Sh Hamza. In person, he’s a very intense person and demands the same from his audience.

    But, I was trying to bring more attention to the speech over the speaker. If you read “Deliverance from Error”, al-Ghazali talks about how the intellectual tradition is necessary, but found that all of the groups had one of two faults:
    A) They only believed in what they did because they were born into it – True for BOTH Muslims and Ahmadis
    B) That the sectarian mind never follows its arguments to their full and logical conclusions. For example, per Mirza Tahir, Ahmadiyya believes in materialism (that the laws of physics cannot be violated). They do this on their way of arguing that ‘Esa عليه السلام could not possible still be alive. The logical conclusion of this is the denial of the supernatural in all ways – but no Ahmadi does this. They do not follow their arguments to their conclusions. This kind of reasoning bothered Al-Ghazali
    C) Al-Ghazali believed that all arguments could be deconstructed. This is a big one. Ahmadiyya boasts that it has the “best arguments” that no one can defeat. Deconstruction means to analyze what premises the arguments are based on, and recognize that they’re ultimately assuming numerous premises. One can easily deconstruct Ahmadiyya arguments, just as I did with point (B). Al-Ghazali was able to do this with everyone except the people of Gnostic experience of Allah BECAUSE their level of faith did not rest on a mere argument. Ahmadiyya has a degree of this, as do all religious traditions, but its mostly writing about it, not experiencing it.

    I’ll say one thing…learning about the faults in Ahmadiyya has definitely helped me understand the archetypes of pitfalls Muslims can fall into. Alhumdu lillah.

    • I love Shaykh Hamza Yusuf as well, he is a beautiful man and exemplary scholar, and does not do takfir against Ahmadis (something which may be new to a lot of you).

      Hudhur is not formally trained in the ‘Ulum al-Islam, I already know that. But he is a fountain of Ihsan (Tasawwuf, Jihad bi al-Nafs). You cannot possibly argue otherwise because you have not met the man nor do you know about his lifestyle and schedule.

      • You’re big into Tasawwuf. Tasawwuf is not a “do it yourself” type practice. It requires a teacher, a guide. Otherwise, you risk coming a degenerate spiritualist.

        A chaperon is necessary to prevent you from going astray in an extremely difficult subject, where Shaytaan is pulling you left and right.

          • T, Islam isn’t just Ihsan.

            And, you are not even in the same continent as your “khalifah”. A guide is an intimate, personal matter not just something you can get over YouTube videos.

  4. Even Seyyidina ‘Uthman (radi Allahu ‘anhu) when first elected as Khalifah stayed silent for many minutes during his Khutbah. Charisma means nothing. Ihsan and Taqwah does.

    Hudhur is the type of exemplary person who did not ever seek fame or praise EVER in his life. Something Imam al-Ghazali (rahmatAllahu ‘alayh) [a person I deeply admire and respect having studied, both formally with a Sunni shaykh, and informally by myself, his many books of the Ihya ‘Ulum al-Din] himself pointed to in one of his books condemning praise and seeking of fame.

    Hudhur was the type of person who loved obscurity and humility. He was the type of person (before his Khilafah) that when asked to do a speech, he would go up, recite al-Fatihah and sit down. What more is needed to be said after all?

    And he is yet extremely knowledgeable in Islam still. Read the English summary folks:

    He also lives a very humble life, in a house that is probably smaller than all Ahmadis in Britain. Do not bring me your unfounded allegations of the Jama’ah making a “mansion” for him. Go to UK and see for yourself where he lives. Khalifah al-Masih IV (rh) lived in such a small room with only a bed and a night-table in it. He would not allow any person to enter it because if Ahmadis how his room was so lowly, they would obviously try to add more things to it. They saw this only after his death.

    • i doubt he writes his own khutbas. i don’t have any proof of this besides a devout ahmadi friend telling me that his uncle is one of the writers of huzoor’s khutbas.

        • Masroor is scared to meet Muslims….you know, Ghandi was scared of anything. He walked around like normal til his death. That shows his level of dedication to his cause.

          Think about it…has any Mirza ever protested for Human rights? Have they ever been arrested for standing up for the rights of the poor? Have they ever given up their life to support life???

          Ahmadis dont even protest their own plight. They should go to Lahore or Karachi and have a seat until the Pak govt. gives them the Human rights which they claim have been violated. Why not? Ever heard of occupy Oakland? Ever heard of Dr. King? Dr. King was inspired by Ghandi, who was an Indian like me. Did Ahmadiyyat even participate in the US civil rights movement??

          • If he’s so scared of everyone why did he call out Geert Wilders without any hesitation?

          • And Ahmadiyyah did indeed. Remember most of the Jama’ah in those early days consisted of African-Americans.

  5. Also please stop with the allegations that Ahmadis believe all other Muslims are kuffar. If that were true, then we would probably be exterminated in Pakistan.

    If that were true then why does Khalifah al-Thaani (radiAllahu ‘anhu) repeatedly refer to other Muslims who are not Ahmadis in “Invitation to Ahmadiyyat” and repeatedly refer to their ‘Aqa’id and call them Muslims (this book written after “Truth About the Split”?).

    I believe anyone who believes and says La illaha IllaAllah; Muhammad al-Rasul Allah, is a Muslim.

  6. Ahmadis consider non-Ahamdis as bastards.

    Read out 1 & 2 on

    Also read the explanation from your official website:
    It should be remembered that a study of the Holy Quran reveals that by the progeny of the prophets is meant their spiritual progeny. A person who does not believe in the prophets and is un-righteous in his conduct can be told metaphorically that his conduct is not of those legitimately born, meaning, that if he had loved the prophets he would have acted like them and would have been called their spiritual descendant.

    • Yah, that’s not a misquote or lie. He really did call us all bastards and kufar.

      But, most Ahmadis don’t believe this part of Mirza’s writings…

  7. mr abd allah is a very delusional individual and he clear does not know what ahmadiyya is or sunni islam
    he is so deluded he thinks there are sunni scholars who dont regard ahmadiyya as a kufr sect.
    Lets help him.
    Hamza Yusuf is a strict Maliki sunni scholar and like all sunni scholars they have a consensus that ahmadiyya is kufr
    that includes tantawi
    infact if hamza yusuf or tantawi, knew that ahmadiya believed in another prophet and did not consider them kufar, it would make them outside of islam themselves.
    you see? no ambiguity.
    abd allah has it seems dappled with sunni islam and liked it,
    so now he is in a desperate bid to reconcile his kufr sect with orthodox islam,
    sorry bud its not going to happen.
    you need to make a choice islam or the kufr of ahmadiyya.
    there is no one , NO ONE! in al azhar who believes you can believe in another prophet and remain muslim.
    poor abd allah thinks that just because someone hasnt discussed ahmadiyya it means they must love ahmadiyya, self delusional is what that is.
    anyone who has heard hamza yusuf teach aqeedah knows that his position renders ahmadiyya into the abyss of kufr.
    even the language of mr. abd allah is borrowed from sunni muslims.
    now on the subject of the khalifas of ahmadiyya.
    this has been exposed and discussed
    they drive in s class mercs, drink evian water, sit in VIP tents in jalsa, breed horses as a past time and have amassed huge land assets in Pakistan
    and we are supposed to believe that they are poor humble typeS!?
    and we are supposed to believed farmer masroor writes his own speeches, when you write your own speeches you dont fumble over them as though you are unfamilar with the content, it is a fact others write them for him
    then we get told when asked to do speeches he would only read fatiha
    well thats pretty clear, someone who doesnt have a clue and is ignorant would do that.
    if you asked me to do a speech on astro physics I would do a similar thing, not because of humility but because of ignorance.
    now that he is chief he is forced to make speeches so he has them pre-written and tries, tries to rread them out.
    if you notice he cant even read dua out loud, because he cant.
    this is the shocking abysmal standards of ahmadiyya
    and these people think they will revive them Ummah
    what a joke!
    mr abd allah stop with the delusion you sound stupid trying to argue that any sunni scholar does have a problem with the kufr of ahmadiyya, like a gay muslim who tries to explain that shariah allows him to practice homosexuality, no it doesnt.

    why dont you do the right thing? embrace islam complete and stop trying to prop up a dead horse.

    • Brother, why don’t you go and speak to some of these Shuyookh and ask them yourself? Takfir is haraam according to just one hadith and Qur’anic verse.

      Your insults do not change my view whatsoever. Nor have I “dabbled in Sunnism”.

      I believe that Muslims…are Muslims, and I love and respect many of them. At the same time I am a staunch Ahmadi Muslim and will believe to my death that Hadhrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (as) was the Imam Mahdi and his Khulafa are all legitimate.

      Wa ‘Alaykum as-Salam

        • I will never become Lahori Ahmadi insha’Allah, as the Promised Messiah (as), a Nabi Allah (as reported in Sahih Muslim) himself prophecized about the split in his Jama’ah in direct terms.

          • Abd Allah – I just wanted to mention/ask 3 things inshaAllah:

            Firstly – Takfir is not haram. Please do not make something impermissible when it is.
            It does however have conditions, suitable places & times – and most importantly – it is not for everyone to practice.
            However, in certain cases, it is allowed, and has taken place throughout Islamic history – starting from the time of Abu Bakr (ra) all the way to today.
            Abu Bakr (ra) delared war on the murtadeen – and he fought them declaring them as Kuffar. It was ironically because they had followed a man who said that he was a prophet after the final prophet Muhammad (saw).
            Today, there legitimate Islamic Councils that have had to either declare people or groups outside of Islam (& not just for the sake of doing so – but, most the time for a beneficial reason). A prime example is the Ahmediyya – there are many shayookh that have said that they are not Muslims (including the old sheikh Al-Azhar Ali Gadur Haq (ra)) – and there are Islamic lagna’s that have done the same in Saudi and Pakistan

            My second point is a question – what did you mean by:
            “the Promised Messiah (as), a Nabi Allah (as reported in Sahih Muslim) himself prophecized about the split in his Jama’ah in direct terms”

            Finally – if you are able to get me Shikh Ali Tantawi’s quote, or source to say that he didnt hold the Ahmediyya outside of Islam?

    • Nor do I consider myself “delusional”, and I have a clear picture of what Ahmadiyyah is and what other streams of thought in Islam are whether that’s Salafi, Maliki, Hanbali, Shafi’i, Hanafi, the various Sufi Tariqas, or Shi’ah.

      I have friends from many streams of thought in Islam and often go to non-Ahmadi gatherings and events, and am even learning Imam al-Ghazali’s books from 2 Sunni Shuyukh.

      At the same time I have many Ahmadi friends and go to their gatherings.

      I have studied both schools of thought (Sunni and Ahmadi) quite in-depth and know what’s going on.

      As far as the al-Azhar comments, I do not really care if Muslim shuyukh make fatawaa saying we are kuffar nor do I really care if they say we are Muslims. We do not need validation by any Mufti or scholar (as Imam Ghazali himself said in his book “Difference between Belief and Clandestine Kufr” that the Fuqaha and Muftis have NO RIGHT whatsoever to pass fatawaa of takfir upon any Muslim group). But as I said, I actually have 2 friends who are devout Ahmadis and have actually studied at al-Azhar. One of them was a scholar at al-Azhar in the College of Shari’ah for 8 years. The other studied Islamic History there.

      You may talk to both and they will accurately tell you how their experiences were at Azhar. Does that make you feel uncomfortable?

      I hope to insha’Allah study the Islamic Sciences there one day as well, or at al-Qawiriyun in Morocco, or South Africa, or perhaps Damascus (may Allah protect Syria and its people from the tyranny they are now passing through).

      • I would say you’re more read than the average Ahmadi, but I really do not think you have in depth knowledge on the various ideas within Sunnism… I’m not saying that as an insult, just from knowing you.

        May Allah bless you for your du’as for Syria.

      • ” I do not really care if Muslim shuyukh make fatawaa saying we are kuffar”

        And what about Ahmadi belief that non-Ahmadis are bastards?

      • @ abd

        You are correct! Takfeer is Haram. However, it is conditional. If a person creates a sect of Islam solely for raising funds that will be misappropriated, then that person behaves like a mis-creant and supports tyranny (the brits), then what can Islamic state do? Even Muhammad (saw) burned down a mosque (see Chapter 9 of the Quran), when he perceived some people pretending to be Muslims and turning a profit while poor people went to sleep hungry.

      • If you could pass me their number/email – that would be great inshaAllah – I would love to talk to them. Are they still in Egypt?

        Farhan – can you please do so in a fashion that perhaps doesnt expose numbers/emails…

        As for feeling ‘uncomfortable’ – to be honest akhi – anyone who has spent time studying the Islamic Sciences in an Arab land (and I specifically mention Arab, nor just Muslim because there are differences here that I have seen to countries where Arabic is not the tongue of the people) and has learnt Arabic (to a certain degree) and then has studied the deen – to then claim the door of prophethood is still open doesnt make me uncomfortable – wa lahi akhi – it makes me sad!
        I just cannot understand how someone, as you said, has done 8 years here – and then fails to leave the land where he came to study about Allah (swt) and his prophet (saw) – leaves with crucial pillars of the faith all over the place.

        Wa Allahu yahdee man yashaa’ ila siraaatal mustaqeem

        Wa ask Allah (swt) to guide us all and to keep us firm on his path

        p.s. I am not cussing non Arab lands

      • I also wanted to say – in response to your comment:
        “I do not really care if Muslim shuyukh make fatawaa saying we are kuffar nor do I really care if they say we are Muslims. We do not need validation by any Mufti or scholar”

        Most of these scholars – and perhaps you have met some, or sat with them and perhaps not – but these scholars are the best of the people – they are inheritors of the prophets – and have excellent manners, a world of knowledge stored in their minds and wisdom deep in their hearts. Allah (swt) talks about them in the Qur’an as being those who have real ‘khashiya’ of Him (swt) and the prophet (saw) has numerous hadith about their special place in the eyes of Allah (swt).
        Please do not get me wrong – I am not talking about general speakers, or famous people who you may see on youtube, or at talks – who have done some study and can hit you with the ‘wow’ factor – nor am I talking about ignorant people who claim to have knowledge and cause so much fitna by giving terrible rulings – but, rather, big scholars who have dedicated their whole lives to the deen – learning it, memorising it and practicing it. There are some teachers who have spent over 60 years learning, reading and teaching – a huge amount of time and dedication to the religion.
        We are lucky enough to get to sit with some of them here at Al-Azhar (and they exist all over the world), when they permit us some of their time – and they are not little boys, going around, declaring takfir on any old ‘jo’ – nor do they play around with the deen of Allah (swt) – they are serious men, so well studied, that it makes us ill in the stomach when we listen to their classes, realising that we have not even put out foot into the door of knowledge, and they have memorised books upon books with deep understanding of the material – it also gives you hope that you can one day reach there and be as well mannered and as knowledgeable as them. And we love them dearly

        Remember, Imam Gazali (ra) was a scholar – and these men are scholars. I am not saying they are on the same level playing field – but Gazali (ra) existed because of those scholars before him, and our ulema exist because of having knowledge passed to them by those who were before them. It is a chain that leads back to the prophet (saw) that leads back to the angel Gabreal (ra) that leads back to Allah (swt).

        If you dont care about their words – because it goes against something you hold – yes, perhaps if it was 1 scholar, who came with a statement that perhaps seemed odd to you – and most other scholars were saying otherwise – I would understand. I would still expect there to be respect – but I could understand you not agreeing with it. But when, there is a consensus of voice – (or if you dont think that all the Muslims scholars agree on it – it is clearly the vast majority of them) that Ahmediyya is not Islam – you still dont care? These are not ignorant people – they are careful in their fatwas because when they issue a ruling – they are accountable for it – and they are scared about if they get it wrong. I could relate to you stories of thousands of scholars talking about how scared they were giving rulings because of the possible consequence of getting it wrong – so, please, dont dismiss them, nor their words and verdicts as ‘nothing’ or something that is not worth – rather, they are the doors to an open sea of knowledge back to Allah (swt) and his messenger (saw).

        My last line for you is a (paraphrased) statement from Umer Ibn Abdul Aziz (ra) – “Be from amongst the scholars, and if you cannot, then be in their company and if you cannot, then at least love them”

  8. I don’t appreciate calling ‘Abd Allah ‘delusional’, and I filtered out some comments like that. I personally met the guy and we speak regularly. He’s a good guy.

    I do believe that he sees things through the colored lens of Ahmadiyya…but that’s not delusion. These kinds of comments are not from our noble traditions…

  9. Your refusal to allow me to express my view is unreasonable to say the least.
    Your suggestion that it is inappropriate to use the word deluded is strange because it a translation of the word Gharoor which is used in the Quran.

    Surah 9
    30. And the Jews say: ‘Uzair (Ezra) is the son of Allah, and the Christians say: Messiah is the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouths. They imitate the saying of the disbelievers of old. Allah’s Curse be on them, how they are deluded away from the truth!

    surah 30
    55. And on the Day that the Hour will be established, the Mujrimun (criminals, disbelievers, polytheists, sinners, etc.) will swear that they stayed not but an hour, thus were they ever deluded [away from the truth (i.e they used to tell lies and take false oaths, and turn away from the truth) in this life of the world)].

  10. To my esteemed brother Farhan, as-Salamu ‘Alaykum wa RahmatAllah,

    I am studying Imam Ghazali’s book, Kitab Sharh ‘Aja’ib al-Qalb (Book of the Marvels of the Heart) under a Shaykh from the Sunni tradition of Islam at the moment.

    In this book, the esteemed Hujjah al-Islam Ghazali (rahmatAllahu ‘alayh) writes regarding the different ways to attain religious knowledge that:

    “Idh tahsalu li ba’dat qulubun ilhaman ilahi” – The attainment [of this knowledge] comes to some hearts through divine inspiration.

    Prophets and Messengers receive direct revelation while the righteous may receive some of that but often attain knowledge through divine inspiration, through which their hearts are illuminated by the light of ma’rifah and ‘ilm. This could also happen through mukashifah, whereupon Allah unveils to these righteous souls the reality of metaphysics, religious knowledge, and the Unseen through visions.

    “Wa li ba’dihim bi ta’alaman waqtisab” – And for some it is a thing to be learned and acquired.

    So there are some that attain knowledge through Allah Himself without any need for formal training in the ‘Ulum al-Islam. There were many righteous people that were Ummi (illiterate) for example Sidi ‘Ali Khawas, teacher of Imam al-Sha’rani, and many others who without ever having read or written anything attained the apex of knowledge and hikmah.

    Allah never takes an ignorant person as a Wali. Even without training in the asbab, Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) would teach that person the divine ‘ilm Himself.

    And for others, they must put an effort to attain knowledge. This is called al-‘Ilm bi ta’alam (knowledge through learning).

    Now you may all disagree with me about the validity of the Khilafah al-Khassa (Special Caliphate – a spiritual Khilafah distinct from Khilafah al-‘Aamah as written about by Imam Ibn Taymiyyah) of Seyyidina Mirza Bashir al-Din Mahmud Ahmad (radiAllahu ‘anhu) but only a person blinded by his prejudice would not think that this person as a scholar indeed produced a plethora of scholarly works, speeches, and lectures. The interesting thing is that he never even passed high school. This knowledge was directly conferred to him by the Mala’ikah (one of which taught him the tafsir of Surah al-Fatihah, Umm al-Qur’an in a dream) and through Divine Inspiration by Allah Ta’ala Himself. There is absolutely no other explanation for it.

    Nor is there an explanation for how Seyyidina Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (‘alayhi al-salam) suddenly had a huge mastery in the subtleties of Arabic rhetoric and linguistics when before people would call him Munshi (a term denoting deficiency in Arabic).

    Nor is there an explanation for how Khalifah al-Rabi’ (rahmatAllahu ‘alayh) had such a mastery in the natural sciences without any formal training in them.

    In the same way, it is my own assumption that Khalifah al-Khamis (may Allah protect him, lengthen his life, and increase him in ‘ilm) was taught through this method of divine inspiration as well. He certainly knows much more than a rudimentary basic level of Islamic knowledge, as you seem to insinuate. Also, I find it very disingenuous of you (for lack of a better word) to be blaming him for a lack of knowledge when you have not even met the man or spoken to him. As far as his pronunciation of Arabic is concerned, there is nothing wrong with not having a perfect one, as Seyyidina Bilal (radiAllahu ‘anhu) himself when calling the adhan would say “as-hadu an-laa illaha illaAllah” instead of “ash-hadu”.

    Also the most talkative and charismatic of people are not necessarily the most intelligent. Take for example, a poem of Khalil Jibran:

    “And then a scholar said, ‘Speak of Talking’

    He answered, saying:

    You talk when you cease to be at peace with your thoughts,
    And when you can no longer dwell in the solitude in your heart you live in your lips, and sound is a diversion and pastime.

    And in much of your talking, thinking is half-murdered.

    For thought is a bird of space, that in a cage of words many indeed unfold its wings but cannot fly.”

    Indeed, many of the Sahaba al-Rasul and Sahaba al-Masih spoke very little, being people of inner-reflection and dhikr. My father met one of the companions of the Imam Mahdi (‘alayhi al-salam) and he said that the companion, Shaykh Qadhi Muhammad Yusuf (radiAllahu ‘anhu) of Mardan (a Pashtun by ethnicity) would talk very little and be silent mostly, even when around his children.

    So it is not in ignorance that our Khalifah talks less, it is through this very attribute of him being a man of inner-reflection.

    Wa al-Salamu wa al-Salatu ‘Ala Seyyidina Muhammad al-Rasul Allah, al-Khatam al-Nabiyyin

    • I bet like a typical ahmadi you have hidden your beliefs from these sunnis you are hanging out with
      seems strange you have to go to the lkafir sunnis when God beams knowledge straight into the head of ahmadis
      why didnt God beam knowledge into mirza tahirs head and get him to pass his degree?
      why didnt God beam knowledge into mirza masroor’s head?
      If you are not being deceptive I suggest you tell your ‘sunni teachers’
      that you subscribe to ahmadiyya cult beliefs which considers them kafir and sons of prostitutes and bastards.
      Unless of course you are behaving in an under handed way.
      I am curious as to why with all the mountains of knowledge in the ahmadiyya jamat, you need to go to these kafir sunnis, who dont even have the good sense to recognise mga as a prophet.
      There is a principle in sunni aqeedah which states that anyone denies any prophet he becomes kafir
      so by our own rules we are kafir in your eyes for reject prophet mirza.
      you are deluded beyond comprehension.
      and to Farhan, you dont have the right to dictate to me what to think and say and believe, you are of course entitled to believe what you want but you cant impose that on me through censorship.

      • 1. It is not prudent for a person to reveal their beliefs automatically if he feels the other person will have certain pre-conceived notions and prejudices beforehand. It’s just common sense.

        2. I again re-iterate that I do not consider Sunni Muslims to be kuffar. If you don’t take my word for it then I don’t know what will make you understand this. Please stop ascribing beliefs for me which I do not hold.

        3. You did not understand the point of what I wrote above, and what Imam Ghazali (rahmatAllahu ‘alayh) himself wrote in that either you may learn knowledge through study or Allah may give it to you Himself. And He has given both Khalifah IV and V that knowledge.

        4. I follow the principle of seeking knowledge wherever it comes from. I study under Ahmadi sources as well al-Hamdu liAllah.

        5. Call me deluded all you want; I respect your opinion. But it does not behove a Muslim following the noble tradition of Islam to insult others and call them “deluded”.

        • “it does not behove a Muslim following the noble tradition of Islam to insult others ”

          It was not an insult it is fact.
          and how about you now explain in light of this statement, how your nabi mirza had the license to abuse people?
          Infact your jamat has gone to great lengths to explain is foul language.
          does it behove a muslim (never mind a nabi) to curse someone one thousand times?

          • I’m totally 100% with Danny on this one.

            Never mind the absolute certainty of 33:40 and the consensus of ALL scholars (despite Ahmadiyya contrivances to the contrary) over 1400+ years of Islamic theology on its interpretation, all prophets (peace be on them all) had excellent character. Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, who was not a prophet, or a saint, or a wali, or even a gentleman did not have good character.

            I agree with Danny that it is a completely accurate judgment on a person to call them deluded when they completely ignore the facts. If such people were to confront the facts and offer a meaningful explanation, then they might be misguided, but perhaps not completely deluded.

            Mirza offered the most vile of curses for people, using the rhetoric of a modern-day rapper, caught up in ego and self-aggrandisement. Anyone following such a man is to my mind as deluded as those women who were recently found to be tweeting that Chris Brown could beat them up any time.

  11. @abd

    sorry we’re having such a disorganizded conversation with you but it’s rare that an ahmadi comes on these forums and speaks intelligently so we’re all jumping on the oppurtunity to communicate with you.

    Anyway, my question has to do with your belief that non-ahmadis are not kuffar. There’s a hadith that indicates wrongfully applying takfir to somebody reverses the takfir onto the applier, correct? Now if the sunni ulema have declared takfir upon you would that not make them kuffar according to this hadith? This is an argument actually used by ahmadi missionaries to refute the lahori notion that we aren’t kuffar.

    And what response do you have to K2’s blatant takfir of non-ahmadis in thr truth about the split? What you’re saying doesn’t chime with what i remember reading in that book. I’ll post exact quotations when i get home in shaa’ allaah.

    • Can I give you two each other’s email addresses – or a separate email address if you want to remain anonymous. MuslimFirst has been trying to have this conversation with ‘Abd Allah for a while and I don’t think this avenue of conversation will be fruitful.

      If you agree, privately send me your email addresses and I’ll send out the initial email.

  12. Let me spell it out for you again

    1) according to sunni aqeedah anyone rejecting a single prophet makes them kafir, you believe mirza ghulam was a prophet and thus our rejecting him makes us kafir.

    2) according to the statements of mirza ghulam and the official position of ahmadiyya muslims are obliged to accept mirza and their refusal to do so makes them kafir

    3) the only tenable option you have is the lahori position who say mirza was not a prophet and muslims can reject him without becoming kafir,

    so you see you are quite clearly confused.

    I will repeat

    why are you going to sunni kafirs when jamat has all the answers???
    It is like muslims seeking theology from christians or jews.
    not to mention your belief that God beams knowledge into the heads of ahmadis.

    which is nonsense
    1) mirza had teachers
    2) the khalifas had teachers, as mentioned in the biographies
    3) mirza masroor did not get taught or he didnt want to learn and there fore he is ignorant and others write his speeches.
    so your whole theory falls flat on its face.

    truth is, you dabbled with sunni islam because of the vacume of knowledge inside the ahmadiyya
    and you are desperate to try to reconcile this by adopting a bizarre posiiton that is neither sunni, or ahmadi

    and again
    why did your ahmadis go and study from sunni kafir when your leaders have knowledge beamed in their heads and they can then distribute this?
    truth is ahmadiyya is intellectually bankrupt so your leaders have to go to the kafir institute of al azhar to learn.

    there isnt a single sunni scholar in the world, let alone al azhar, that does not believe that anyone who claims or believes in a prophet after Muhammed (saw) is an absolute kafir, no one!

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