Hadith & Alleged Death of Jesus -11 (Statement of Jarud in Bahrain)

As promised in a comment to the eighth post of this series, today I respond to the Ahmadi attempt of seeking evidence with an alleged statement of Sayyidina Jarud b. Ma’la (RA) made in Bahrain.

Some Qadianis quote a statement of Jarud bin Ma’la (RA) from Muhammad bin Abdul Wahhab’s book Mukhtasar Sirat Al-Rasul. According to the statement as put on a Qadiani website[1]:

“Some people of Bahrain turned apostate at the death of Holy Prophet (PBUH) on the premise that had he been a Prophet he would have not died. At this eve Jarud (RA) addressed them saying, Holy Prophet (PBUH) is the servant and Messenger of Allah. He lived as Moses and Jesus lived and died as Moses and Jesus died. On listening to this the people reverted to Islam.” (Mukhtasar Sirat Al-Rasul p.187 by Muhammad bin Abdul Wahhab. Darul Arabiya Beirut Lebanon)

The Truth:

In the following lines I reproduce the Arabic statement from the book, its translation and details about its authenticity. The actual wording goes as:

أنه قال : ما شهادتكم على موسى ؟ قالوا : نشهد أنه رسول الله . قال : فما شهادتكم على عيسى ؟ قالوا : نشهد أنه رسول الله قال وأنا أشهد أن لا إله إلا الله وأن محمدا عبده ورسوله . عاش كما عاشوا ، ومات كما ماتوا . وأتحمل شهادة من أبى أن يشهد على ذلك منكم . فلم يرتد من عبد القيس أحد .

“He [Jarud bin Ma’la] said [to his tribe]; ‘What is your testimony regarding Moses?’ They said: ‘We testify he was a Messenger of Allah.’ He said: ‘What is your testimony regarding Jesus?’ They said: ‘We testify he was a Messenger of Allah.’ He said: ‘And I testify that there is no other deity except Allah and Muhammad is his servant and Messenger. He lived as they lived and died as they died. And I imply the testimony on the one who among you refuses to testify. So no one remained apostate from Abd Al-Qais.” (Mukhtasar Sirat Al-rasul 1/431, Chapter on Apostasy of the people of bahrain)

Authenticity of the narration:

1) This narration has been given without any chain or a reference to any classical work that provides the chain for it. Infact with these words the narration is not found in any of the well known source books of Hadith, Sirah and History. So now it is for Qadianis to show us the complete chain of the narration with these words. Surely burden of proof lies upon the one who claims!

It speaks a lot  to rely on a narration without any isnaad (chain of narrators) in theological debates. Imam Sufyan Thawri (RA) is reported to have said:

الإسناد سلاح المؤمن فإذا لم يكن معه سلاح ، فبأي شيء يقاتل

“The Isnaad is the weapon of the believer, so if he does not have it with him, with what shall he fight?” (Khatib Baghdadi’s Sharaf Ashabi’l-Hadith 1/92)

But most certainly this is for believers and not the cultists!

2) A narration on these lines is found in Tarikh Al-Rusul wal Muluk (Tarikh Tabari) of Ibn Jarir Al-Tabari. Here I reproduce it:

حدثنا عبيد الله ، قال : أخبرنا عمي ، قال : أخبرنا سيف ، عن إسماعيل بن مسلم ، عن الحسن بن أبي الحسن ، قال… فقالت عبد القيس : لو كان محمد نبياً لما مات ؛ وارتدوا ، وبلغه ذلك فبعث فيهم فجمعهم ، ثم قام فخطبهم ، فقال : يا معشر عبد القيس ؛ إني سائلكم عن أمر فأخبروني به إن علمتموه ولا تجيبوني إن لم تعلموا . قالوا : سل عما بدا لك ، قال : تعلمون أنه كان لله أنبياء فيما مضى ؟ قالوا : نعم ، قال : تعلمونه أو ترونه ؟ قالوا : لا بل نعلمه ، قال : فما فعلوا ؟ قالوا : ماتوا ، قال : فإن محمداً صلى الله عليه وسلم مات كما ماتوا ، وأنا أشهد أن لا إله إلا الله وأن محمداً عبده ورسوله ، قالوا : ونحن نشهد أن لا إله إلا الله وأن محمداً عبده ورسوله ؛ وأنك سيدنا وأفضلنا

Ubaidullah narrated to us, he said: My uncle said: Saif [bin Umar] narrated from Isma’il bin Muslim, [he] from Hasan bin Abi Hasan, he said: ‘…so the Abd Al-Qais said: ‘If Muhammad were a prophet why did he die?’ and they turned apostate and this news reached him [Jarud]. So, he reached them and gathered them and then addressed them: ‘O people of Abd Al-Qais, I ask you of a matter so answer me if you know it and do not respond if you do not know.’ They said: ‘Ask of the matter that concerns you!’ He said: ‘Do you know in the past there have been Prophets from Allah?’ They said: ‘Yes.’ He said: ‘Do you know that or you just perceive it?’ They replied: ‘No, we but know of it.’ He said: ‘What happened to them?’ They said: ‘They died!’ he said: ‘So if Muhammad died as they died, I testify there is no deity but Allah and Muhammad is his Servant and Messenger.’ They said: ‘And we also testify that there is no deity but Allah and Muhammad is his Servant and Messenger. And you [O Jarud] are our leader and the best of us.’ (Tarikh Al-Rusul wal Muluk 2/164. Chapter on the Expedition of Khalid towards Bani Juzaima)

3) Other than the fact that this narration does not clearly speak of what Ahmadis contend, it has been classified as Da’if (weak) by scholars in the first place. See Tarikh Al-Tabari With research of Muhammad bin Tahir Barzinji & Subhi Hassan Hallaaq 3/66 pub. Dar Ibn Kathir, Beirut, 2007. Its chain has the same narrator Saif bin Umar whose status we discussed in the second post of this series.

4) In conclusion, we can say that there is no authentic narration with complete chain of narrators that mentions what Qadianis cite. The closest narration found is utterly weak and thus does not serve as evidence.

INDEED ALLAH KNOWS THE BEST!


[1] The Site has the statement in Urdu. Here I have given the literal translation of what the site reads.

Be Sociable, Share!

36 thoughts on “Hadith & Alleged Death of Jesus -11 (Statement of Jarud in Bahrain)

  1. Muhammad ibn AbdulWahab and Tabari, both are known to be great scholars of Islam. Tabari’s History is reference to all books on Islamic History and Wahab was the founder of current Wahabi/Ahle Hadith movements. I respect their opinions and find these historic narrations to be in accordance with Quran and Sahih Hadith.

    In isolation, I will not present them to be the evidence for death of Jesus (as). Please address only the primary evidence by the Jamaat if you want to prove that Jesus (as) is still alive. The Primary evidence in this case will be the verses of Quran clearly stating that Jesus (as) has passed away (and the fact that there isn’t a single hadith stating that Jesus went to the heavens alive).

    • Yet there are many stating he will descend from heaven:

      Abu Hurairah (RA) said: Allah’s Messenger (SAW) said “What will be your condition when the son of Mary (i.e. Jesus) descends amongst you from the heavens?” (Baihaqi’s Asmaa wal Sifaat 2/432 Hadith 855)

      Abu Hurairah (RA) said: “I heard Abul Qasim the Truthful and Trustworthy (i.e. Holy Prophet (SAW)) say: “Then Jesus son of Mary will descend from the heavens and lead the people.”” (Majma’ Al-Zawaid 7/349. Haithmi said, Bazzar has narrated it and all its narrators are those of the Sahih [i.e. Sahih Bukhari] except Ali bin Munzar and he is also trustworthy)

      Ibn Abbas (RA) narrated that the Messenger of Allah (SAW) said: “And near it will descend from the Heavens my brother Jesus son of Mary.” (Kanzul Ummal 14/619 Hadith 39726)

      “Tabari then mentions that, according to Hasan Al Basri, the Prophet said to the Jews, “Jesus did not die, and he will return to you before the Day of Resurrection.” (The Qur’an and Its Interpreters: The House of Imrān, Page 169 by Mahmoud Ayoub)

      It is narrated from Ummul Momineen Saffiya (RA) that when she visited Bait Al-Maqdis and finished prayers in Al-Aqsa Mosque she climbed up to Mt. Olives and prayed there as well and said: “this is the mountain from where Jesus (AS) was raised up to the heavens.” (Al-Tasrih bima Tawatar fi Nuzul Al-Masih Hadith 74 cf. Tafsir Fath Al-Aziz Surah 95)

    • Ahmadiyya have no right to adduce the status of learned men for they do not feel any qualms to reject anything when they like. And unlike Muslims Ahmadis go by their whims and not the science of narration.

    • Is there any hadith which proves Jesus (p.b.u.h) went to Kashmir or would have been born as M.G.A (nauzobillah) the son of Chirag bibi? This is what your ahmadiyya jamaat believes.

  2. … Concerning the book Mizanul Qubra by Imam Abdul Wahhab Shi’rani and the Futûhât of the Shaykh Muhiyudeen for the sake of the readers.

    As a gist of what the Shaykh Muhiyudeen ibn ‘Arabi has written about revelation and vision as pretext and proof [for a claim] in the Futûhât is that the saintly people enquire of the commandments of the Holy Prophet (on whom be salutations) through vision and when any from among them require [guidance from] a Hadith in any situation he is honoured with an [visionary] audience of the Holy Prophet ﷺ and Gabriel (peace be upon him) descends and the Holy Prophet asks Gabriel concerning the dilemma about which the saint is perturbed and reveals it to the saint so that the question is answered to the saint through the mediation of Gabriel. Then the Shaykh ibn ‘Arabi states that the Traditions are Authorised in this manner by the Holy Prophet ﷺ [himself and] there are several Traditions which are Authentic in the opinion of the Scholars of Hadith and they are not Authentic according to us and there are many Traditions which are [considered] fabricated and [they] are made Authentic by the word of the Holy Prophet through vision. That is all.

    Ibn ‘Arabi also states in the Futûhât al-Makkiya that such an abundance of mystical knowledge is disclosed to those who invoke [God and His Messengers] and ascetics which people of notion and inference do not possess and these points of mysticism and [these] secrets and points of gnosis are exclusive to the prophets and saints …

    Yes it was not denied then and is not denied now that perhaps as a literal fulfillment of the prophecies another Promised Messiah be born some time in future but the difference between this statement and the one in Baraheen e Ahmadiyya is merely that at that time that was written as a summary of the revelation and of not knowing its every aspect and is now written in full detail anyhow the said Maulvi has placed great emphasis upon this humble one resembling the messiah in order to create an affirmation of plausibility as in one place he copies the words of Muhiyudeen ibn ‘Arabi from the Futûhât al-Makkiya chapter 223 to elucidate his meaning and that excerpt along with its translation is as follows:

    Translation: The summit of union is to become identical to that through which it appears and not known in itself as I saw the Holy Prophet ﷺ in a dream that he embraces Abu Muhammad ibn Hazm the scholar of Hadith. Then one disappeared into the other except that there was none other than the Prophet of Allah ﷺ. So this is the summit of spiritual connection, which is also referred to as Union.

    (Izala e Auham [The Removal of Misconceptions]. Riyaz Hind, 1891. R. K. iii. 176 – 178, 231, 232, 257f).

    Remember that these suspicions about why all those Traditions of the Six Authentic that have been written regarding the Mahdi and Promised Messiah thought inapplicable in this place are eradicated with the question as to why it is written in the journals and reports as in the letters of the Mujaddid [Reformer] Sirhindi and the Futûhât al-Makkiya and Hujjujul Karama that the clergy of the time of the Mahdi and Messiah will severely oppose him and call him a deviant and a blasphemer and a disbeliever and the Antichrist and will say that he has ruined the religion and abandoned the Traditions so he should be put to death because this clearly indicates that the coming Messiah and Mahdi will certainly abandon some Traditions which are considered Authentic by the scholars albeit he will abandon most of them which is why this havoc akin to doomsday will erupt and he will be declared a disbeliever. So these Traditions clearly reveal that the Mahdi and Messiah will appear contrary to the expectations of these clerics of the time and will speak and act in complete opposition to the track of Traditions which they have laid:

    When the Imam Mahdi makes his appearance, none other than the Orthodox clergy and theologians would be his most ardent and open enemies.

    (Futûhât al-Makkiya [The Meccan Revelations]. Chapter 73).

    Which is why he will be called a disbeliever.

    Regarding the Mahdi being called a disbeliever and a deviant and blasphemer see Hujjujul Karama by Nawab Muhammad Siddiq Hassan Khan and Dirasat al-Labib [by Shaykh Muhammad Muin ibn Muhammad Amin al-Sindi] and Futûhât al-Makkiya.

    It is such a clear prophecy that unless a person deliberately chooses to be dishonest he cannot question it and it is not the Quran alone that labels such people Jews but the Hadith also confers the same appellation on them and clearly states that the divines of this Ummah shall denounce the Promised Messiah as a disbeliever as did the Jews and the clerics of the time will be the bitterest enemies of the Promised Messiah for on account of him their prestige will decline and people will cease to have recourse to them. These Traditions are very widely known in Islam and even the Futûhât al-Makki states that on his advent the Promised Messiah will be hailed with excommunication from Islam and one divine will exclaim at the top of his voice ‘What kind of Promised Messiah is this who distorts our faith.’ That he does not believe in our traditional doctrines and is antagonistic to our conventional beliefs. Some Traditions go so far as to say that some divines would follow strictly in the footsteps of the Jews so much so that if a Jewish divine had committed incest with his mother so shall they and if a Jewish jurist had entered the hole of a lizard so shall they. It would also be worthwhile to remember that in all references to the degradation of the Jews in the Gospels and in The Holy Quran it is not the public and common people who are mentioned but their rabbis the jurists and the priests and chiefs that are referred to who issue the edicts of excommunication and whose sermons inflame the masses.

    (Tohfa Golarrviyya [A Gift for Golarvi]. Ziyaul Islam, 1902. R. K. xvii. 127f, 157, 158, 329).

    • I’ve never understood how Ahmadis could possibly use Ibn Arabi as an authority when he clearly says “He (the Mahdi) will levy the poll-tax and call (mankind) to God with the sword, so that whoever refuses will be killed, and whoever opposes him will be forsaken.”

      As for the typical out of context Ibn Arabi quote would you like to tell the readers what he says after saying who his enemies would be? No? Well I’ll do it for you “and his enemies will be those who follow blindly the ‘ulama’, the people of ijtihad, because they will see the Mahdi judging differently from the way followed by their imams (i.e., the historical founders of the schools of Islamic law). So they will only accept the Mahdi’s authority grudgingly and against their will, because of their fear of his sword and his strength and because they covet (the power and wealth) that he possesses. But the common people of the Muslims and the greater part of the elite among them will rejoice in him, while the true Knowers of God among the People of the (spiritual) Realities will pledge allegiance to him because of God’s directly informing them (of the Mahdi’s true nature and mission), through (inner) unveiling and immediate witnessing.”

      Such deceptive people the Ahmadis.

      P.S. Good job Waqar!

    • Rehan why u and AHMADIES FAILED quote these statements of Ibn Arabi regarding Mahdi:

      they will see the Mahdi judging differently from the way followed by their imams. So[b] they will only accept the Mahdi’s authority grudgingly and against their will, because of their fear of his sword [/b]and his strength and because they covet that he possesses. But the common people of the Muslims and the[b] greater part of the elite among them will rejoice in him, while the true Knowers of God among the People of the (spiritual) Realities will pledge allegiance to him[/b] because of God’s directly informing them, through (inner) unveiling and immediate witnessing
      (Futûhât al-Makkiya)

      suddenly Ibn Arabi will become unauthentic for Ahmadies 🙂

  3. Ibn Arabi could be mistaken in some of his inferences. He writes himself that he enquired God about various questions and got the answers, and many questions he did not ask. So the questions he did not ask, he made his own interpretations and those are bound to have the element of human error in them.

    Also, the PRIMARY evidence is Quran. The Sahih ahadith quoted about the descent of Jesus (as) do not confirm that he was raised up in body.

    • The Holy Prophet Muhammad (SAW)
      “Jesus did not die, and he will return to you before the Day of Resurrection.” (The Qur’an and Its Interpreters: The House of Imrān, Page 169 by Mahmoud Ayoub)

      The Holy Prophet Muhammad (SAW) was asked about the following verse of the Holy Qu’ran, “And he shall be a Sign (for the coming of) the Hour (of Judgment)” to which he explained was the “descent of Jesus son of Mary before the Day of Judgment” . (Sahih Ibn Hibban, Kitabul Tarikh, Hadith 6943)

      Abd Allah Ibn Abbas (618 CE – 687 CE)
      Ibn Abbas (RA) said, “When Allah intended to raise Jesus (AS) to the heavens, he went to his companions… and Jesus (AS) ascended to the heavens through an opening in the top of the house”. (Ibn Abi Hatim 4/431 Hadith 6266, Ibn Kathir 2/449. Ibn Kathir called it Sahih)

      About the verse, “If you punish them they are your servants”, Ibn Abbas (RA) said, he (Jesus) will say: “These slaves of yours have invited your chastisement by what they said (and believed). And if you forgive them i.e. those whom I left behind me and those who were there when I came down from the heavens to earth to kill Al-Dajjal and they turned back from what they said (i.e. Trinity) and believed in your Oneness…” (Durr Manthur 4/27, 5:118)

      Al-Hasan Al-Basri (642 CE – 729/110 CE/AH)
      “I swear to God that Jesus (AS) is at this moment alive in God’s presence, and that everyone will believe in him when he returns.” With regard to the Holy Qur’an 4:159, he said: “God raised Jesus (AS) to His presence. He will send him before the Day of Judgment as a holder of rank. Good and bad, all will believe in him.” (Al-Suyuti, Durr al-Manthur, 2:284) He also made a similar comment regarding the Holy Qur’an 43:61, saying that the meaning of the verse was that Jesus (AS) would return to earth. (Al-Suyuti, Durr al-Manthur, 2:220)

      There are so many others we can quote on this subject such as Imam Abu Hanifah, Imam Abu Ja’far Al-Tahawi, Al-Maturidi, Al-Ash’arī , Al-Ghazāli, Ibn Arabi, Jalāl ad-Dīn Rūmī, Ibn Hajar Al-Asqalani, Jalaluddin Al-Suyuti but of course you know better than they do…

      • rophet Muhammad (PUBH) said to a Jew:
        ESA(AS) has not died he will surely return to you near day of judgement

        (IBn Khatir (full version not english abridged version) under ayat Ini Mutwafeeka he quoted it from Darul Manthur by As-suyuti)

        Ahmadies must start think that why they reject same guy on same topic when he does not agrees with him?

        like on appearance of mahdi they quote Ibn Arabi but on appearance of Mahdi they reject him when he disagree with ahmadiyyah religion BIG TIME 🙂

    • Luft so why ppl talk about Ibn Arabi when it suits u and reject him when it does not?
      as said Waqar arguments are based upon proofs that how scholars (multiple) consider these narration to be

      where as ahmadies quote anything that suits them even if its fake or unauthentic

      so u can see the difference

  4. Ibn Arabi on Mahdi:

    WHY AHMADIES FAILED quote these statements of Ibn Arabi regarding Mahdi:

    They will see the Mahdi judging differently from the way followed by their imams. So[b] they will only accept the Mahdi’s authority grudgingly and against their will, because of their fear of his sword [/b]and his strength and because they covet that he possesses. But the common people of the Muslims and the[b] greater part of the elite among them will rejoice in him, while the true Knowers of God among the People of the (spiritual) Realities will pledge allegiance to him[/b] because of God’s directly informing them, through (inner) unveiling and immediate witnessing
    (Futûhât al-Makkiya)

    However, [b]if the Mahdi did not have the sword in his hand, then the jurists would all deliver legal opinions (demanding) that he be killed[/b]. But instead (as stated in the hadith) “God will bring him forth with the sword and noble character,”
    (Futûhât al-Makkiya)

    Now suddenly Ibn Arabi will become unauthentic for Ahmadies and they will not even try to reply 😀

    • I am familiar with this writing by Ibne Arabi. You will have to understand that Ibne Arabi is writing from what he understands from his own visions and inspirations which must have been metaphorical in nature. He conveys a lot of information in these passages and they must be read in their entirity to understand Ibn e Arabi’s view point. At one hand he is speaking of poll-tax, but in similar passages he speaks of swords being hung from olive trees. In one passage he confirms that ulema of the time will oppose Mahdi but he then mentions that the majority of Muslims will follow him. He also gives a list of the qualities of Mahdi’s helpers. None of them include skills with any weapons or art of war. All of these qualities are of spiritual nature.

      We can only intrepret these writings as a whole. Firstly, war can mean any struggle against evil. It does not have to be swords and arrows. It can be arguments and struggle for victory of Islamic ideology over the rest. Many ahadith also predict that “Jihad” will conintue in the Ummah until the last day. If literal meanings of Jihad are to be applied, it can mean that Taliban and Al-Qaeda etc are correct and on the right path. But true meanings of Jihad here are what Jamaat Ahmadiyya and all other saints have been doing through out the history of Islam.

      You must also keep in mind that Ibn Arabi believed that Jesus (as) had passed away. He also claimed to have been converted at the hand of Jesus (as) in a vision and considered Jesus (as) to be Khatamul Khulafa of Moses.. He considered Mahdi to be the Khatamul Khulafa of Holy Prophet (saw).

      • Have you ever been sized for a straight jacket? What are you reading? We can’t be reading the same material. Did you get Ibn Arabi mixed up with the Mirza? You should be evaluated by a pyshco-therapist ASAP.

      • So Luft are you saying u just gona ignore what he said and start assuming ur own things?

        and if he himself was no sure then why u ppl quote him that Mahdi will be rejected??? Why u and ur jammat have these double standards?

        and Sorry to say ur wrong its not just struggle he didnt just use the word Jihad but also SWORD and says that some will accept him coz of FEAR OF HIS SWORD and Worldly power it is talking about so please stop playing with words and cut the assumptions.

        Coz these kind of things are exposing u and ur religion more n more u need to start thinking 🙂

      • Typical Ahmadis, they do this with everything. They tell us what Allah (SWT) really meant, they tell us what the Holy Prophet Muhammad (SAW) really meant, they tell us what the Sahaba (RA) really meant, so of course they are going to tell us what Ibn Arabi really meant to!

        “Ibn al-‘Arabi reported that even though more than a thousand years has passed since Jesus’ (pbuh) birth, he is alive in body and soul in God’s presence.” (Ibn al-‘Arabi, Fusus al-Hikam (Istanbul: 1287), 63; Baybal, Ibrahimi Dinlerde, 238-40.)

        Have you read the tafsir of Ibn Arabi?

        “Thus according to Ibn Arabi, it was not Jesus or his substitute who suffered death on the cross, but a phanton image which God created expressly for that purpose… He continues: “…When Jesus was taken up to heaven, his disciples did not call anyone to God, but that he answered their call… It will, therefore, be necessary for him to descend once more to the earth in a physical form and follow the Muhammadan dispensation in order for him to attain to its station” (Ibn Arabi,I, pp.190-91) (The Qur’an and Its Interpreters: The House of Imrān, Page 180/81 by Mahmoud Ayoub)

        But of course… You know what he really meant by that right?

        • Please do not quote people who are trying to interpret Ibne Arabi. He himself has said that Jesus (as) will descend in the latter days with a new body. i.e., he will not be the same person.
          Ibne Arabi has also clearly written that Holy Prophet (saw) was the last law bearing prophet and non law bearing prophets can come.

          Again, I read and understand Ibne Arabi in light of his own interpretations of Quran. As is the case with all prophecies, they are never fulfilled in the way people think, but God fulfills His prophecies as He alone Wills. Ibne Arabi has arrived at certain conclusions which are perfectly understandable. He has done ijtehad on various issues. In some cases he could make errors, but in most of his writings he reflects on the Wisdom of God and arrives at the right conclusions.

          • @ lutf

            What are you spewing? We have proved without a shadow of a doubt that Ibn Arabi believed that prophethood ended and that Esa (as) was alive in heaven.

            Are you reading the references? If so….Allah will punish you for “gross misconduct”. You have seen the truth, but you still reject it.

            Ibn Arabi said that Esa (as) would get a new body, this was his conjecture. It doesnt mean that a different Esa (as) would Nuzool.

            Ibn Arabi said that prophethood had ended, yet he also said that it was the LAW-type of prophethood that had ended. Ibn Arabi considered all prophets before Muhammad (saw) as LAW-type. Ibn Arabi was referring to prophethood in Sufi terminology, not any type of ummati=prophethood.

            Did I really need to explain that?

          • What are you talking about? This taken from his TAFSIR where he says “…When Jesus was taken up to heaven, his disciples did not call anyone to God, but that he answered their call… It will, therefore, be necessary for him to descend once more to the earth in a physical form and follow the Muhammadan dispensation in order for him to attain to its station” (Ibn Arabi,I, pp.190-91)

            Grow up Luft. You accept what you feel is compatible with Ahmadiyya and reject that which contradicts Ahmadiyya. You guys believe Ibn Arabi was divinely guided yet you reject him when says He (the Mahdi) will levy the poll-tax and call (mankind) to God with the sword, so that whoever refuses will be killed, and whoever opposes him will be forsaken.” and when he says “they (his scholar enemies) will only accept the Mahdi’s authority grudgingly and against their will” but again why would you accept his authority when it comes to such statements because they contradict Ahmadiyya. How canMGA say Ibn Arabi had a prophecy about the Mahdi being a twin but then rejecting this part of the Mahdi! It’s pathetic!

          • Luft ur not even sure how authentic Ibn Arabi is you quote him when it suits u and ignore him and it does not suits you 🙂
            why u have double standards?

            Why u quote him regarding Imam Mahdi that he will be rejected (even fake ones were rejected as well)

            but when he said that Imam mahdi will use Sword, he will kill people he will have worldly authority U DONT LIKE IBN ARABI THEN?

  5. بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

    السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته

    Somebody has already quoted the translation of the following Hadeeth:

    و عن ابن عباس رضى الله عنه فى حديث طويل قال قال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم فعند ذلك ينزل اخى عيسى بن مريم من لسماء
    Ibn Abbaas رضى الله عنه narrates that that Messenger of Allaah صلى الله عليه وسلم said: “And near it will descend my brother, Jesus son of Maryam from the sky.” [Kanz-ul-‘Umaal: Vol.14, P.619, No.39726]

    It is quite interesting to note that the false prophet and liar and cursed antichrist, Mirzaa Ghulaam Ahmad Qaadiyaanee actually quotes this narration in his book entitled “Hammaamat-ul-Bushraa P.148”, but changes the wording, instead of Jesus عليه السلام descending from the sky, the narration he quotes says he will descend upon the Mountain of Afeeq.
    Here is the link to the scanned page:
    http://www.khatm-e-nubuwwat.org/ahmadies/Hayat-e-EISA%20Elihi%20Salam%20Az%20roay%20Hadees/P/4-1.htm

    I would also like to quote another Hadeeth for the benefit of those misguided people who believe that the Messiah, son of Maryam عليه السلام has already died and will not come before the Day of Resurrection:

    أخبرنا محمد بن الحسن بن الخليل قال : حدثنا هشام بن عمار قال : حدثنا الوليد بن مسلم قال : حدثنا شيبان بن عبد الرحمن عن عاصم عن أبي رزين عن أبي يحيى مولى ابن عفراء عن ابن عباس عن النبي صلى الله عليه و سلم في قوله : { وإنه لعلم للساعة } [ الزخرف : 61 ] قال : ( نزول عيسى ابن مريم من قبل يوم القيامة )

    Ibn ‘Abbaas رضى الله عنه narrates that the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم said regarding: “And he (Jesus) is a Sign of the Hour” [43:61]: “Jesus son of Maryam will descend before the Day of Resurrection.” [Saheeh Ibn Hibbaan: Vol.15, P.228, No.6817]

  6. So all those Ahmadies and their Jammat quoting Ibn Arabi must answer this:

    Is he authentic on Appearance of Mahdi or NOT??? Coz most of his statements goes against Mirza Ghulam and Ahmadiyyat 🙂

    • Depends on how you understand ibne Arabi. Ibne Arabi society, an online resource on Ibne Arabi provides excellent insights into his works. Most of the contributions are by non-Muslims.

      • Yes in on that website u can find statements of Ibn Arabi

        where he talks about Mahdi having the wordily authority and that he will be using SWORD and People will be Afraid of his SWORD

        those who will oppose will be killed, he will implement Jaziya and Majority of people will accept him and others with obey him out of fear of his sword

        all these goes against UR JAMMAT clearly and is something that totally destroys ur jammat as MGA failed to fulfill these things mentioned by Ibn Arabi.

        but still u ppl quote him with part where it suits u on same subject shows ur cult dishonesty and ur blindly following it
        sad

        • It is you who is picking and choosing from Ibne Arabi’s work. I have stated from the very start that to understand him, you need to look at his work in its entirety. This is why i find ibnearabi society website useful. It reviews Ibne Arabi’s works as a whole. Please read the Shaikh’s views on Jesus (as), the prophet.

          • Really how?

            yes according to Ibn Arabi yes few scholars will be against Mahdi but at same time they will be afraid of his wordly authority his sword

            and he will kill ppl who will oppose him he will implement Jaziyah tax

            so who is picking and choosing? Its u ahmadies so come out of denial

            coz on same subject of mahdi u take the part of his statement and ignore rest of it shamelessly

            so think

      • Its obvious how YOUR PEOPLE understand Ibn Arabi, whereas the rest of the known planet has the correct understanding. Unlike your corporation, most researchers analyse writers based on there ENTIRE body of work.

        Ahmadiyya theology is claiming that Ibn Arabi was ONLY correct where THEY claim him to be. This is an attack on the BRAIN of the common human. Humans take everything that a particular writer wrote, and then figure things out. Thus understanding what the writer was attempting to convey.

        Unfortunately, Ahmadiyya fiqh uses a “picking and choosing” theory when creating their HIJACKED interpretation of Islam. Ahmadiyya theology uses this strange theory across the board. Even when it comes to the Bible, they only use quotes that MAY benefit their own motives, and thus reject all other data that negates their religion..cough cough business.

        The sad part in all of this is that they MIS-interpret the Quran and claim that this or that hadith doesnt match their interpretation of the Quran.

        Ahmadiyyat is really a slap in the face to Orthodox Islam. Thats why Muslims have been soooo hostile towards these people. Bahais are treated better because they are more up-front.

  7. The hadeeth, narrated by Ibn ‘Abbaas رضى الله عنه about Jesus عليه السلام descending upon Mount Afeeq is apparently in the Tareekh of Ibn Asaakir Vol.50, P.353

    I am not sure about the authenticity of this narration.

    But another interesting point is that Mirzaa Ghulaam Ahmad himself wrote that Jesus عليه السلام, according to a Hadeeth in Saheeh Muslim, will descend from the heavens:

    “For example, in a hadeeth of Saheeh Muslim these words are present that when the Messiah comes down from the heaven…” [Roohaanee Khazaa’in Vol. 3, P. 142; Izaalah Auhaam P.81]

    Now, of course there is no Hadeeth in Saheeh Muslim that the Messiah will come down from the sky. The ahadeeth in both Bukhaaree and Muslim only say that he will descend, but the word “sky” is not mentioned in these two books. One could say that the obvious interpretation of the ahadeeth in Saheeh Muslim is that he will descend from the sky, and Mirzaa Ghulaam Ahmad was not quoting a word for word translation of the hadeeth, but just quoting its general meaning.

    In that case, it is proven that at least at one point in history, when Mirzaa Ghulaam Ahmad wrote the book “Izaalah Auhaam” in 1891, he still believed that Jesus عليه السلام will descend from the sky.

    Now of course, the Qaadiyaanees will say that their “Prophet” and so called “Promised Messiah” made a mistake. That’s funny, considering that the books which Mirzaa published he claimed were under divine inspiration [Ilhaam]. How can you make a mistake when your pen is writing by the power of Ilhaam? That means that Allaah is making a mistake?!

  8. Dear Salafee, I will make it easy for you. Promised Messiah (as) in his first book, Braheen e Ahmadiyya, volume 1 stated that Jesus was alive in heavens. This was before God informed him of the fact that Jesus (as) had passed away and no one will be descending from the heavens.

    The quote from Izala e Auham is part of a long argument about the ahadith regarding the descent of Jesus (as). Promised Messiah (as) has categorically rejected the notion that Jesus ever went to heavens or will return with his physical body. Please read the whole book. He is actually arguing that Quran states that Jesus (as) had passed away. Bukhari states the hadith with words “imamukum minkum” i.e., Jesus will be your imam from among you. And Muslim quotes a hadith about the descent of Jesus on the minaret in Damascus. (all on page 142). Promised Messiah (as) then says that we don’t know if the hadith is referring to the real Damascus (or if it is a metaphor) and he also states that it is not necessary to agree with Muslim on this issue.

    • Luft before according to Mirza Ghula he wrote barheen ahmadiyya with the help of GOD 🙂

      I think u dont read MGA’s books carefully
      once again u have been proven wrong

    • @ lutf

      MGAQ used this same pattern to claim prophethood in 1901. From 1891 to 1901 he frevently claimed that he wasnt a prophet…in 1901 he admitted that he was wrong!!!!!!

      It’s easy to see the con-job of MGAQ. From 1879 to 1891 he only wrote one sentence in terms of Esa (as)….

Comments are closed.