References and History

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As the Ramadan of 2010 of the Common Era nears its end, I’d like to share with you for the first time, the email I sent to Dr. Rashid towards the end of Ramadan 2004, just before I left the cult of Ahmadiyya for good. I will not share his response out of respect for him, but it was beautiful, elegant, wise and inspired. I want to share it with those of you who are also thinking of leaving Ahmadiyya to let you know that I’ve been out of the cult for close to 6 years now and a day doesn’t go by that I don’t feel blessed for having done so. alhamdulillah, it was the best decision I ever made.


(Sent on the 22nd November 2004, giving only my first name)

Dear Doctor Sahib,


My name is Shahid. (Witness, not Martyr!) I have been reading your
website, and also I also read the entire messageboard
against jamaat Ahmadiyya on the yahoo groups.

I was born into jamaat Ahmadiyya. I recall going to some religious
function with my father when he was still alive, perhaps some 25 years
ago when I was a boy. I was speaking to an uncle and at this point, I
had read the Holy Quran, and the English translation a number of
times. I said to him “But Hazrat Ahmad can’t be a prophet, as the Holy
Qur’an says that The Holy Prophet was the last of the prophets!”. He
took me aside and told me that my beliefs were wrong. He was quite
loving about it, but I still didn’t understand.

Now I’m a grown man of 38 and have spent the whole of Ramadan
researching. I am on the brink of leaving jamaat Ahmadiyya, but I want
to make sure that I don’t make a catastrophic error.

I’m not concerned about social network, friends, history, all of that.
I’m interested in truth.

Some of what has been written against the jamaat rings true, other
things look like gross exaggerations. However, one hears rumours of
things not quite going right in the community – and when one lie is
covered up, one wonders how many more there might be…

Anyway, I’m sure you’re a busy man. I have some questions for you as
you seem pretty vocal:

1) What is your motive behind the destruction of the jamaat?
Seriously? Why do you hate it so much? Please be open with me, I don’t
mind and am not interested in forwarding our correspondence to anyone
else – remember, that by engaging with you in the first place, I am
ignoring the decree of our “Khalifa” – the appointment of whom upset
me. I wanted to know why in this entire jamaat, only Hazrat Mirza
Ghulam Ahmad’s family are deemed worthy of appointment by some
quasi-divine-election process that mystifies me.

2) How do I know that the quotations you have used are valid? Or in
context? (I believe you when the argument is proved against the jamaat
in the context of the Finality of Prophethood and the way the original
authors on the subject are subverted, disingenuously, to the cause of
the jamaat, so I am only applying your own rigour to your own
arguments!) After all, I don’t read Urdu. I can download Roohani
whatever (which until you told me about, I had never been aware of!!!
Isn’t that odd??) – but I can’t read and translate to determine
veracity – and life is too short – I might die soon – if it be the
will of Allah – and I want to save my soul – if not my body – without
going mad studying.

3) What do I do if I leave the jamaat?

I must say again, that some of the arguments used against jamaat seem
dubious and a little cynical and perhaps even partially contrived, but
there are enough arguments against it that have brought me to the
brink of leaving.

Regardless, thank you for your site. It has, if nothing else, been an
education. And Ahmadis simply do not know enough about their own
“faith”. You are absolutely right. Most Ahmadi “believers” are rank
amateurs, which is dangerous when we are talking about the education
of the soul.

I hope you will have time for a little private email dialogue. If you
are on msn messenger, my handle is

I would appreciate it if you would keep this correspondence confidential.



(n.b. I no longer use the above hotmail address. You can reach me at shahid at thecult dot info.)

And now I will give you a response, for you, the Ahmadi reader who knows that something is wrong, but you can’t quite put your finger on quite what it is and who doesn’t want to go mad studying a language you probably don’t understand.

Today, there are many places you can go for references. In your case, I would read the translations of the Ahmadiyya, which are available in the following locations:

I would recommend Tadhkirah as a useful book to start with. However, you should note that the Ahmadiyya has changed this several times, and in recent years it has been changed twice in response to articles or videos made by contributors to this web site. You should ask yourself about the integrity of an organisation that adapts its theology without explanation in response to its former adherents who have woken up and smelt the coffee.

Another collection worth checking is The Essence of Islam.

And finally, a collection of official Ahmadiyya booklets I found and br. AhmedC preserved for posterity are well worth looking at. More details can be found in the article “The Lost English Books of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani

I’d also recommend that you take the juicier extracts and ask someone who understands Urdu to read them for you. They’re usually spot on. I would also thoroughly recommend the following website:

Ahmadi Beliefs

There is an open challenge by the compiler to disprove or refute any of the translations. If mistakes are found, they will be corrected.

You should finally ask yourself, who benefits? Do you want to continue to be mollified by the hasbara of the Ahmadiyya? Or do you want the truth? I certainly won’t be asking you for chanda, or even thanks. On the contrary, I offer my support. I seek only the Pleasure of Allah (SWT). Anyone who has dealt with me, including Qadiani spies, know this to be true. I have been blessed enough to see former Ahmadi friends become Muslim. They all know they made the right choice.

I want you to know something. I know how you feel. I have been through this, many others have. It is not easy, but it is right.

What you find beautiful in Ahmadiyya is Islam. What you find distasteful is the dust on your cloak. Shake the dust of Mirzology off. Islam is your birthright. Reclaim it.

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49 thoughts on “References and History

  1. Mashallah very nice bro Shahid your Mashallah very nice addition to Muslim Ummah may ALLAH guide more ahmadies to Islam

    I hope Farhan Qureshi (orthodox786) Akbarc, Rationalist etc post about their journey to Islam as well.

    • please show the Ahmadiyya Jamaat has changed this book several times!!! please produce the evidance,

  2. I hope this will help other people who are thinking about leaving. We are sincerely here to advise you and not mock you, especially reverts such as Shahid and Rationalist. This must bring back some memories for you brother Shahid, may Allah (SWT) continue strengthening your imaan as well as ours, insha’Allah. As Ahmadis will see from your correspondence with Dr Rashid, your questions are genuine concerns you had before taking the next step. May Allah (SWT) guide other people to Islam through you, insha’Allah.

  3. My story is very complicated. There are many aspects. I had written about 1 aspect of that on this blog. By the time that I met Shahid I had already left Ahmadiyyat, and I was already a Muslim. I had actually met Farhan first. I had watched his videos on youtube and was shocked to learn how Mahmud Ahmad twisted Ibn Arabi and many other references to support his prophetology scheme. Farhan destroyed every argument.

    I was still hung up on the Esa (as) theory by MGAQ. I was leaning towards joining the LAM, then I was leaning towards Atheism. Farhan had asked me once what my status was and I told him that i was “in a state of flux”. Within 5 years or so, i had went from a qadiani to a borderline Lahori to an atheist. I had just read prophet of doom as well, this was what pushed me away from Islam.

    As I began to study Islam after Ahmadiyyat, I began to see the shine of Islam. I realized that Islam was a gift and not a curse. I began to realize that Muhammad (saw) gave an exemption to every rule or law that he imposed (with the will of Allah of course). I read about the history of conquest in terms of the europeans and christianity and was shocked that they called us violent.

    You see, Ahmadiyyat leads to Atheism, in most cases. The biggest piece of evidence being the ex-ahmadis that post over at These people were shell-shocked when they learned what Ahmadiyyat was. They were so hurt that they left religion altogether. I was almost in the same boat.

    Farhan didnt even know that I was the Rationalist. I just started blogging as such. Then I met Shahid. Just last month some Ahmadi blogger wrote on this blog that Farhan’s videos were worthless or something to that effect. I replied that these videos helped bring me to Islam. I enjoyed watching the outtakes as well. It showed a side of a Muslim that was funny and human.

    I also remember watching Shahid’s videos where he goes through Tadhkirah….WE CAN WHAT WE WILL DO—that was like the nail in the coffin in terms of the case of Ahmadiyyat.

    • Brother Rationalist, Hafiz B.A. Misri also passed through the same sort of stage i.e he also became an atheist for some time before reverting to Islam.

      May Allah S.W.T strengthen your iman and may he guide all Ahmedi brothers and sisters to Islam. Ameen!

      • Brother who is Hafiz BA Misri?

        by the way one brother here in Pakistan became muslim and his family has kicked him out and all his valuables have been taken away and he is facing lot of problem every one do pray for that brother as well May ALLAH give him strenght.


        • This guy grew up in Qadian in the era of th2e 1920’s and the 1930’s. HIs father was Abdur Rahman Misri. Misri held a high rank in the qadiani community, Mahmud Ahmad even left him in charge of the community when he left.

          Misri’s son was Bashir Ahmad, which is a very common ahmadi name. Bashir Ahmad told his dad one day that Mahmud was raping him. Misri was taken aback and didnt really know what to do. Im sure that Misri’s entire world was rattled.

          Misri decided to ask Mahmud about these allegations(roughly 1930’s). Mahmud totally denied everything. Misri eventually left the qadianis and joined the LAM. His son totally quit religion altogether and I dont blame him for that. I had written before that Ahmadiyyat leads to atheism and this is just another case that proves this point of mine. Most people are so disgusted with religion after their “Ahmadiyyat” experience that they lose faith in an almighty creator altogether.

          Misri wrote a ton of books and the LAM have them on their site:

          Scroll down to Sheikh Abdur Rehman Misri. All of his books are in Urdu. I was never able to read any of his writings.

          This is why I tell people like MOBI that their work is not done! I need to be able to search these books for clues and I cant.

          • tell me can Almighty Allah allow such a person to have such success, if he done such a evil deed? and now look at the life misri, it is clear he is a liar, just like you!! present the evidance,

          • Yes..its possible. Success doesnt prove anythong. Bill Gates was incredibly successful and he is an atheist.

            Figure that out..DUMB DUMB

    • Dear shahid’

      Assalamo alaikum!

      I remember that some years ago one of your comrades confronted me with a question which was that “do I feel that Hazoor would ever call someone Kafir”. I replied that certainly not. However they then produced a quote to me from the book of Khalifa thul Messih 2nd rah. For a moment I felt that “how could this be?” But alhamdoillah I decided to READ the whole chapter and form a true opinion based upon actually reading the whole page and subject. I quickly realised as it was presented quite evidently that what they had presented was a fraud and that at first though the tiny quote which they had presented seemed quite serious and severe, was infact a very clear explanation of the subject of “disbelief” in Islam based upon Qur’aan and sunnah relating to the coming of Imam Mahdi (as). Since that time Shahid I have realised your bogus stratagem.

      Recently while I was (as I regularly do) reading the latest posts on the I read a post containing a letter written many years ago by yourself.

      It was a letter which you had written to a prominent anti-ahmadi activist. I would like to make a number of very telling observations in relation to this letter.


      Mr.Shahid Ahmad sahib you have not by your own admission grown up in Jam’aat. Therefore you never attended children’s classes, local meetings or any other function of Ahmadiyyat. You were already living as it were outside the pale of Islam, not having either a conclusive grasp of Sunni or Ahmadi schools of thought. As you has written and published yourself;

      “I was born into jamaat Ahmadiyya. I recall going to some religious
      function with my father when he was still alive, perhaps some 25 years
      ago when I was a boy.”

      You mention that as a boy you had enquired of your uncle about the issue of finality of Nabuet. You stated that your uncle spoke to you very lovingly but he was not satisfied with the response. As a child with a Childs intellect the issues of Islamic theology can be more for a young mind to comprehend. I am sure that if you had continued to ask the same questions and actually study the books of Imam Mahdi (as) you could have come to a more educated understanding of the position of Jam’aat al Ahmadiyyat.


      You also made the claim that Ahmadis do not understand their “own faith” and that most Ahmadi believers are “rank amateurs”. I find this as a convert to Islam as laughable. I have spent the last six years, as is my constant nature questioning excessively whatever Ahmadi I can corner to realise and to find more and more information so as to expand my mental dictionary of Islami Ahmadiyyat. Yes in all faiths there are does who have although been born into their respective faith have not studies it in debt and can find themselves non pulsed when confronted with a quote or statement which is cut without context or the fore text. People like you perhaps Mr. Shahid.


      Your memory of said event must be quite obscure now. You claims that your uncle told you that you were wrong to say that Muhammad (saw) is the Last Prophet.

      Let me enlighten Shahid sahib on what Ahmadis believe about Khataman Nabuet;

      Muhammad Mustaffah (saw) is the Last Prophet in that his dispensation in the last dispensation and his religion Islam is the Last religion. The Holy Qur’aan is the last book of Shariat.

      No NEW Prophet can come AFTER Muhammad (saw) because his Nabuet and dispensation shall last until the day of Judgement. No Prophet can come AFTER. The word AFTER conntntates of course that one thing has ended and another has begun.

      In Islam Muhammad (saw) told the Muslims that a time shall come when humanity will need a Prophet. No ordinary person shall do. But that Prophet shall not be a NEW Prophet. That Prophet shall not break the SEAL because he shall be a Muslim, teach from Qur’aan and he shall not bring anything new. Rasool Allah (saw) mentions the name of Isa ibn Miriam in some Ahadit. However the Holy Qur’aan clearly says that Isa (as) from 2,000 years ago has died a natural death and shall not himself return. This is not a new idea but is firmly rooted in the writings of the Salaf and the Mujadids.

      We Ahmadis claim that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (as) is the Imam Mahdi and the fulfilment of those Prophecies pertaining to the return of Isa (as). He was the greatest lover of his master the Holy Prophet (saw) and his staunchest defender. He rekindled the fire of love and understanding in an entire generation of Muslims. He once again revealed the glory and timeless knowledge and beauty of the Holy Qur’aan. He brought nothing new, not a NEW Prophet, not a NEW teaching but a revival of the Religion of Peace.
      He was not a Prophet AFTER Muhammad (saw) but he was indeed a Prophet FROM Muhammad (saw).

      He was Al Mahdi al Mesih (as).

      Your welcome…


      However this brings me to the fourth point mentioned in this letter. Mr.Shahid sahib you cannot read Urdu. Yes Mr.Shahid sahib who consistently produced his arguments against Imam Mahdi (as) from his books (Mirza Ghulam Ahmad) cannot himself make an accurate study of the text contained within. So one may ask that from where do you get your quotes since you yourself have never read or studied his books? You ignorantly referred in the letter to the books which you regularly quotes as “Rahooni Whatever”

      “After all, I don’t read Urdu. I can download Roohani
      whatever (which until you told me about, I had never been aware of!!!
      Isn’t that odd??)”

      Yet you is quite prepared to present your arguments based upon books which you have neither studied nor are capable of studying.

      I of course cannot know what response you received by letter but when one is asking all the wrong questions without understanding or learning the answer can only be like.

      There are more points in this letter that I would like to raise but I feel for now four is enough.

      • There were a number of factual errors in your comment. For one thing, not only did I attend meetings more than the majority of members, I taught atfal too. Where does that leave your idiotic assumptions and spiteful inferences?

        Why does a protected cultee need to hide their true identity by they way? Only cowards attack people with lies from the cover of anonymity. Don’t you believe in God?

        • Shahid brother!

          Factual errors? Factual errors?

          Your quotes Shahid. Your words Shahid. Your pronouncements Shahid. Not mine. Not my spin. not my perspective Shahid, your perspective, your spin.

          As to my identity my name (was) Christopher Pender from the Republic of Ireland. I am 29 years old. I am a Muslim alhamdo’illah now 6 years. I took the name Yusuf. Nice to meet you sir.

          I have not lied Shahid I have simply quoted you. You claimed that “25 years ago” you went to Jam’aat functions. You said that you don’t read Urdu and had no familiarity with the books of Imam Mahdi (as).

          You think that because some one has fed you a few crumbs of a quote here and there in “English” that you have found a “good catch”. Classic Christian missionary tactics for poor Muslims who may have not a very strong grasp of their principles of their faith. MISLEADING!

          You are lying and contradicting yourself. You have presented yourself in your videos as a person who can read Urdu and you present references in Urdu THAT YOU CANT READ YOURSELF FROM BOOKS THAT YOU DON’T EVEN KNOW EXISTED,.

          Another point as a 5th point is that you claim that you left Jam’aat become you felt something was wrong right? Really Shahid? Really? You left of your own free will? …ok 🙂 I would like with your permition to write on this point further Shahid. Will you give me permition?

          Who is this site for? Ahmadis? or your conscience?

          Yusuf Mirza!

          • Good luck with this guy Shahid. Obviously he has alot of reading to do.

            There is so much data in english that at this point a researcher doesnt even need an ability to read urdu. I have learned more thorough these websites than any other soource.

            Shahid…this guy is lost. Meet me over at the Forum bro and I will engage you.

          • He’s not anybody’s ‘bro’. There is little point in engaging with dimwits whose opening gambit is gossip. Their agenda is smear and hatred. Almost every point he makes is twisted beyond belief. His conclusions are astonishingly stupid and his inferences are mendacious. No person of good character does this. And somebody who can’t even spell “permission”, or signs off their name with an exclamation mark needs to go back to primary school.

          • So let’s get this straight, you’re a 29-year-old convert to the Ahmadiyya cult from Ireland and you think you know me and would like to talk trash and uninformed gossip about what you think you know about my personal life that you’ve gleaned from cultees in denial whose agenda is to demonise me because it mollifies their membership? LOL. That as opposed to talking about your faith, which is the subject of this site? That’s interesting, and not surprising in the least.

            Your tabloid trash makes my skin crawl. It would make any sane or rational person’s skin crawl. Take your gutter-style elsewhere please, no Muslim would behave like you – you are an Ahmadi, there is a big difference between Islam and Ahmadiyya. Ahmadiyya is about backbiting, gossip, hatred, filth, Islamophobia and sleaze. Unable to respond to any of the issues, you cheaply resort to smear, gossip and slander. That’s great, just proves how dumb you are, and how unIslamic.

            As for your innuendo, I will tell you this: Those closest to me, who unlike you, actually know what happened or took the opportunity to get my side, have either left Ahmadiyya for Islam or are in the process of doing so. SubhanAllah!

            Even those who didn’t are fully cognizant of the low character of the other party whose voice you are here to represent. You don’t even know what you’re getting into, but I’m sure your parents would be ashamed of you.

            Now take your hatred of Muslims and your filthy innuendo elsewhere. You can gossip and backbite amongst your Mirzai brethren all you wish, it will get you no nearer the truth, and much closer to hellfire.

          • Well, well, well..

            Mr. Shahid you have accused the Imam Mahdi (as) of alcoholism, fraud, insanity, treachery, sexual immorality and you have the neck to call me out on “ethics”? You must be having a laugh. It is not possible that anyone could stoop as low as you have on so many occasions. And you whine about “innuendo”?

            You are an off-colour clown. And you better believe I will 10/10 times respond to you in the same foul language that you smear Imam Mahdi (as) with. It seems to be the only thing that you understand because you don’t seem to respond to evidence and logic.

            Would my parents be ashamed of me Shahid? Well as you have asked; no not at all. Alhamo’Illah quite the opposite. And yours? Shahid you left Ahmadiyyat because of a grudge and found fare weather friends in the gutter. It’s only a matter of time before you leave Islam altogether.

            You advise others about foul talk, smears and ethics and you forget yourself. Smart.

            My previous post contained exclamation marks and misspellings perhaps.

            Unfortunately though, by your whinging response it seems like you are more interested in playground scuffles then debating like an adult. And as for your threat that “you don’t know what you’re getting into” this just shows your cultist mentality that whenever you are confronted with a sudden truth that threatens to fragment you forged reality you panic and swing your fists.

            Nice!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

            Take care now..

          • Steer clear of the personal rubbish and lies and stick to the allegations and proofs and we’ll get on fine.

            Think carefully about whether you’re representing your cult particularly well by gossip, lies and ad hominem smears. Seriously, you don’t look good.

            Don’t worry about me – if I’m all the things you think I am, God will take care of me, but if what I’ve said and what others have said is true, then what about your outcome? Think.

          • Let’s clear up some of your more obvious lies first of all.

            1) Mirza was not the Imam Mahdi, or a prophet, or even a decent man.
            2) I never accused him of alcoholism, but he did recommend it, ask for it to be bought and put it in his medicines. Don’t misquote me and don’t lie.
            3) Fraud is well documented, specifically, his promise to deliver 50 volumes of Braheen Ahmadiyya, when he delivered only 5.
            4) Insanity – I’m not so sure he was insane actually. But he did claim to be suffer from meeraq and hypochondria and melancholia. He also had weird blackout fits where he saw black shapes. Read seerat-ul-mahdi in the forum for evidence.
            5 Treachery – you’d better believe it.
            6 Sexual immorality – absolutely. Analyse the Muhammadi Begum episode.

            Stooping low? Do you recall a single instance of me writing anything about Mirza that wasn’t backed up at some point with references?

            “Off-colour clown” – given that you’re Irish and presumably white, is this racism? Or just personal? Either way, are you authorised by your Masroor to be racist or rude on behalf of your cult?

            Foul language in response? Everything I have said about Mirza is backed up evidence not from his opponents, but from Mirza’s books. You should also remember Mirza’s teachings – that you should respond to foul language with beautiful language. Or don’t you buy any of that Mirzai nonsense anyway? Make up your mind. It appears I know your prophet better than you do.

            I didn’t leave because of a grudge, my reasons for leaving are well documented. If you choose to believe gossip, well then your mentioning the gutter seems apt.

            I’m not interested in debate, certainly not when all you’ve got is uninformed rubbish. Learn some manners, because I am your elder, or don’t they teach you such things in Ahmadiyya? Then when you want to discuss things in a grown up fashion, without getting personal, we’ll be here.

            Love for All, Hatred for None, eh?

        • So you’re not interested in debating with me eh? Yes Shahid you are my elder. But would it not be my duty to tell an old man that he is about step off a ledge? You don’t want personal Shahid right? What about your funny little impression of Imam Mahdi (as) when you put on a racist Punjabi accent and mocked the speaking style of your ancestors? (the Yalash video) And you want to call me racist? You have entered into immorality so deeply that you even mock at your own racial roots. How low can you stoop Shahid to maintain your charade?

          50 volumes of Braheen Ahmadiyyayes? He stated that but he also stated later that Allah (swt) had increased his abilities so much that he had completed them in 5. This book series was universally accepted by his contemporaries as the best book ever written in the defense of Islam. But you’re the expert right? Not that you can read it though Shahid because you can’t read Urdu. You call this fraud while the entire aley sunnah from their own statements seem not to agree though. But you are a greater scholar then them I am sure. And by the way its written Brahin-i-Ahmadiyya not Braheen Ahmadiyyayes.

          And as for sexual immorality? Shahid you are low down. Mentioning the Muhammadi Begum story? Is that it? You people make me heave. When I hear you rattling on about this it reminds me of Christians who make evil remarks regarding Prophet Muhammad (saw) and his noble wife the mother of the faithful Hazret Aisha (rah) Naoozub’illah.

          Imam Mahdi (as) was a Homeopath and yes he in some instances did use alcohol and opium in extremely small quantities in his remedies. Shahid if God forbid you fall over and get a nasty break you will be taking opium also or as it is called today “Morphine”. Imam Qayum also prescribed them.

          Will you now Shahid call him immoral also? Well…?

          You make me chuckle 😀

          • Little tip – search the blog and forum for the low-down on your master’s Magnum Opus. AhmedC has translated a lot of it and it’s rubbish.

            You remind me of someone. Me, before I learned the truth.

            Join us on the forum, happy to answer questions there.

          • Yusuf the reason he gave for 5 vs 50 volumes of Barheen ahmadiyya was coz difference is of 0 between 5 and 50.

            and we was suppose to give 300 arguments as well which according to his own son he just gave only 1 🙂

            so it was never completed dont get tricked by the jammat

          • Dear Yousuf,

            50 volumes of Braheen Ahmadiyyayes? He stated that but he also stated later that Allah (swt) had increased his abilities so much that he had completed them in 5. This book series was universally accepted by his contemporaries as the best book ever written in the defense of Islam.

            I am a native Urdu reader and I would like to inform you that two statements that you have been taught by Qadiani Mullahs are complete lies.

            For the first, Mirza Sb himself claims that he wrote only five books and the promise is fulfilled because there is just a difference of a “dot” between 5 and 50.

            Secondly, I have read Brahin-Ahmadiyya and it is no where close to best book written in defence of Islam and no scholar said so about the series. They only said so when Mirza Sb promised that he will write a book and published the first part which was full of promises to defend Islam in remaining 49 parts. That promise was praised by scholar, but when the series of 5 was done, no scholar praised it at all. For your reference, I am quoting below from Brahin 5. You can read it, check its translation from any Urdu knowing person and decide for yourself how this filth can defend Islam.

            پس یاد الہی میں ذوق و شوق اور خشوع نطفہ کی اس حالت سے مشابہ ہے جب وہ ایک صورت انزال پکڑ کر اندام نہانی کے اندر گر جاتا ہے ضمیمہ براہین احمدیہ حصّہ پنجم ص 192 مندرجہ روحانی خزائن جلد 21

            Thus immersion in remembrance of Allah which is also called khusoo is similar to that state of sperm when it gets a form of ejaculation and drops into female genitals and there is no doubt it is a time of great ecstasy in physical state. However, just falling of that drop of semen inwards does not necessitate a relationship between womb and that sperm so that it is attracted toward the womb. Thus, similarly, spiritual enthusiasm and state of khushoo does not necessitate that such a person will have connection with the kind Lord and will be attracted to Him. Rather as the sperm gets into vulva of a whore through adultery then the person dropping the sperm gets the same delight as he gets with his wife. Thus the state of khushoo and enthusiasm of idol worshipers and creation worshipers is similar to that of adulterers. That is, khushoo of pagans and of the people who remember God for worldly reasons is similar to that sperm which goes into internal genitals of prostitute women and creates delight . (Braheen Ahmadiyya Vol.5 192)

            I beg you to read the filth of Mirza Sb with an open heart and then decide why did you accept this guy as a prophet.

  4. He was responsible for bringing the ‘zani-pana’ of MGAQ’s son “the 2nd khalifa of the kazzab” into the open.
    He was also the first muslim imam of the Woking mosque in the 1960’s which had earlier been conrolled by the LAM.
    See link below for more details:

    May Allah SWT help the brother who has reverted, Ameen!

  5. please remember the Holy Prophet (saw) naauzubillah was accused of imoral actions and still is by many people. I have read other accounts of so called immoral act of the 2nd Khalifa, and each one contradictes eachother, . under stand one thing, it is impossible that almighty Allah would allow a man who would comit such an imoral act, to become such a successful religious and spiritual leader. just because someone accuses sombody of something does mean ” it happend”

    • Ahmad ur argument is based upon emotions not proofs.
      like Paul invented Trinity and not 2+ billion people follow that and consider Paul Saint.

      does that mean he was truthful? NO

      so this simple thing refute ur arguments about he being truthful coz he was some sort of successful in fooling ppl

      • no my arguments are based on logic not emotions, oh by the way St Paul did not create trinity, study Christian Theology, it is not about numbers it is about you guys accusing this poius man of an immoral act, without proof, just like the Holy Prophet was accused immoralities also , oh by the way christians dont consider the Holy Prophet a truthful and pious person, are they right!!! indeed not, your argument is weak,


        • You was saying that ALLAH wont allow such person to be successful. so according to ur own standards Paul is successful as well.

          and i think u dont know that even according to Mirza himself it was paul who spread it

          and now he is considered Saint by 2 billion people.
          I also say its not about numbers by according to ahmadies them self it is.

        • You sound like a woman who gets beaten by her husband and still defends him.

          You sound like a victim of rape who defends the raper.

          Sir…with all due respect you need to google “Battered women”, and find some people who can help you.

          Allah said that if you are insane then you are exempt from lots of rules and regulations. Allah has made a way out for you. Good luck.

        • Sorry Ahmad, not one act but a multitude of them documented over a long period of time!!!!!!!!!!!

  6. Please remember the Holy Prophet (saw) naauzubillah was accused of immoral actions and still is by many people. I have read other accounts of so called immoral act of the 2nd Khalifa, and each one contradicts each other, understand one thing, it is impossible that almighty Allah would allow a man who would commit such an immoral act, to become such a successful religious and spiritual leader. just because someone accuses somebody of something, does not mean” it happened”

    • 1. In 1907, Mahmud Ahmad was investigated by an inquiry commission that was created by his father MGAQ. This commission consisted of Noorudin, Muhammad Ali and a few others. Mumtaz Ahmad Faruqi refers to this incident in his book entitled, “Truth Triumphs”, which was written in roughly 1965, after the death of Mahmud.

      Go here:

      See page 40.

      Qazi Muhammad Nazeer wrote, “Truth Prevails” as a refutation of all the arguments that this other book contained. He didnt refute that Mahmud Ahmad was investigated for immoral acts. His silence proves that this event happened and shows a pattern of behavior.

      Mahmud was nothing more than the gangster of Qadian. He was a rich kid gone bad.

      Your jamaat has never refuted this event of 1907. Check your little Tarikh-i-Ahmadiyya, I bet this event is missing. Qazi Muhammad Nazeer was quite the entire matter.

      • read page 40 not convinced!!! the same accusations made against the Holy Prophet (saw) these are just conjecture not a single proof was found.

        • Ahmad u over n over bringing Prophet (PUBH) as example does not mean that any one accused of imoral act is inocent like Prophet (PUBH)

          remember pigott, rashid Khalifah were also accused does that mean they were accused like Prophet (PUBH) and they were truthful? NO

          so stop giving the excuse which dont even work over n over again

  7. This argument about Ibn Arabi from Farans ” with love to Ahmadis” is weak inshallah brothers Farans book is being answered and very soon, you will see how weak his arguments are, when this book is complete inshallah, there is no twisting of Ibn Arabi writings. so Rationalist you should have prayed more. or tried to learn Arabic as to be able to read his writings.

    It is the same problem with those who cannot read urdu, how therefore, can anyone do justice to claimes of the Promised Messiah (as) when they cannot read the books of the Promised Messiah (as).
    I have been following Shahids comments for some time now, but his arguments are not new ones, even though he makes some notable points, but points that can be answered.

    perhaps if those former Ahmadi Brothers had read Naeem Osman Memon books answereing and destorying so many of the foul accusations on the Promised Messiah (as) they would have been able to do justice to there leaving Islam.

    And Rationalist your attack on the 2nd Khailfa is unfounded this Misri story is a fantastic story based upon noting but conjecture and noting else, have you forgotten ” innocent until proven guilty” when ever the enemies of Islam can find not anything wrong in the argument, they accuse Holy People of immoral behaviour for example ” Mohammed was not only guilty of breaking the old Arab laws and coming infinitely short of the law of Christ; he never kept the laws of which he claimed to be the divinely appointed medium and custodian . when Khadijah died he found his own law, lax as it was, insufficient to restrain his lusts” ( by Samuel Zwemer qouted in the book ” Islam is of the Devil by Terry Jones p 22″ this example is a very mild one, there are others, hundreds, now written by former Muslims who have become Christians but even the words ” Rape of young children” has been used against the Holy Prophet (saw) so Rationalist you have used this word against the 2nd khalifa ” Bashir Ahmad told his dad one day that Mahmud was raping him” now should we also believe those stories about the Holy Prophet (saw) which has no foundation just like this story, which has no foundation at all!!.


    • Do u even know what Ibn Arabi believed about Mahdi?
      He believed Mahdi will have sword and it will be like his brother.
      and people will be afraid of his sword.

      so u ppl love to quote ibn Arabi but he himself dont agree with u
      or u accept part of his belief and reject other parts of it?

  8. Shahid sb could you please produce the names of all the those lost books!!! even better still, reproduce them for all to see!!!. I am sure I read in the rules “1.Personal abuse is not permitted” there are number of places where you become abusive, should not practise what you preach!!!

  9. Ahmad

    **Please remember the Holy Prophet (saw) naauzubillah was accused of immoral actions and still is by many people. **

    What immoral actions ? Provide some proof and you will be corrected !

    • Basit even fake claimants were accused of immoral actions
      so some one being accuse of immoral actions does not make them truthful.

      ahmadies are creating standards which dont even exist 🙂

      • you missed the point Zia, the Holy Prophet (was) was and is accused of immoral behaviour and many books have written on this. So is true of course not! many people have accused the 2nd Khalifa of Immoral behaviour is this proof no! are you guys really Muslims no!!!

        • Ahmad I think u didnt get the point

          I said even other fake claimants were accused of Immoral thing so that does not make any one truthful.

          so u have created the fake standards which dont exist.

    • Basit have you not read any accusations like childabuse, having sex with a six year old, what do you call that!!! all by Christian Scholars example “” Mohammed was not only guilty of breaking the old Arab laws and coming infinitely short of the law of Christ; he never kept the laws of which he claimed to be the divinely appointed medium and custodian . when Khadijah died he found his own law, lax as it was, insufficient to restrain his lusts” ( by Samuel Zwemer qouted in the book ” Islam is of the Devil by Terry Jones p 22″ this example is a very mild one, there are others, hundreds, now written by former Muslims who have become Christians but even the words ” Rape of young children” has been used against the Holy Prophet (saw)

      • So are you saying if any claimant will be accuse so does that mean that person is truthful?

        so ur not making any sense.
        Rashid Khalifah, Elijah muhammad etc were also accused of bad things so does that mean they are truthful? NO

        same gose for Mirza Ghulam and ur K2 as well.
        Accusation themself dont make any one truthful
        so stop the emotional dialogs and come up with proofs if u can
        stop the blind following of Mirza and sons pvt ltd

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