Quran & the Meaning of Raf’a -1

Ahmadis claim that the word Raf’a used in Qur’an with respect to Sayyidina Eisa (A.S.) means ‘rise in ranks’. This is what was said by Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani himself and it is so translated by their leading ‘scholars’.

Following is the translation of the two verses in this regard i.e. Qur’an 3:55 and 4:158 by an Ahmadi, Sher Ali;

“When Allah said O’ Jesus I will cause thee to die (a natural death) and will exalt thee to myself …” (3:55)

“.. on the contrary Allah exalted him to Himself.” (4:158)

But this is most certainly erroneous as we shall see shortly.

In the following lines we understand the meaning of Raf’a in the light of the monumental works on lexicology and the context of the verses in question.

Meaning according to leading scholars:

1- Raghib Isfahani writes;

الرفع يقال تارة في الاجسام الموضوعة إذا أعليتها عن مقرها

Raf’a is sometimes used for corporeal things to mean raising or elevating it from its resting place.” (Mufradat Al-Qur’an 1/200)

2- Al-Feyumi writes;

فَالرَّفْعُ فِي الْأَجْسَامِ حَقِيقَةٌ فِي الْحَرَكَةِ وَالِانْتِقَالِ وَفِي الْمَعَانِي مَحْمُولٌ عَلَى مَا يَقْتَضِيهِ الْمَقَامُ

“So Raf’a in relation to corporeal things is used properly to denote motion and removal and in relation to ideal things it is accorded in meaning to what the case requires.” (Al-Misbah Al-Munir 3/443)

3- Edward William Lane says the same; infact he quotes the above two statements in his Arabic-English Lexicon part.3 p.287

Raf’a in relation to Eisa (A.S.) refers to both his body and soul and not just soul:

1- A careful but honest look into the wording of the Qur’an shows that Raf’a is used for the body of Eisa (A.S.) as well and not just his soul;

We see that in Qur’an 3:55;

إِذْ قَالَ اللَّهُ يَا عِيسَى إِنِّي مُتَوَفِّيكَ وَرَافِعُكَ إِلَيَّ وَمُطَهِّرُكَ مِنَ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا وَجَاعِلُ الَّذِينَ اتَّبَعُوكَ فَوْقَ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا إِلَى يَوْمِ الْقِيَامَةِ

“When Allah said: .O Eisa , I am to take you in full and to raise you towards Myself, and to cleanse you of those who  disbelieve, and to place those who follow you above those who disbelieve up to the Day of Doom. Then to Me is your return, whereupon I shall judge between you in that over which you have differed.”

Just as مُطَهِّرُكَ (cleanse you) and اتَّبَعُوكَ (follow you) refer to the whole person, body as well as soul, رَافِعُكَ (raise you) also refers to both body and soul. There is no basis to maintain the difference between reference of pronouns of مُطَهِّرُكَ ,اتَّبَعُوكَ  and رَافِعُكَ. And as body is a corporeal thing so in the light of actual meaning of the word it most certainly denotes its displacement. This also leads us to the True Islamic belief that even مُتَوَفِّيكَ (take you) refers to the whole person, body as well as soul and not merely the soul.

Meaning of ‘Cleanse you’:

2-‘Cleanse you’ refers to Eisa’ (A.S.) departure from the evil company of the Jews. The very fact the verse reads ‘cleanse you of those who disbelieve’ shows it was physical separation and not spiritual for disbelievers could have never been close to the Mighty Prophet (A.S.) in spiritual sense. This cannot be a reference to his being relieved from the false accusations of Jews and Christians because context has nothing to do with it. It refers to the evil plot of the Jews (verse 54) and Allah’s plan to save him from their dirty trick. Same is evident in light of the scholarly opinions see e.g. Tafsir Kabir of Al-Raazi and Tafsir Kashshaf of Zamakhshari. Al-Raazi has been recognized as Mujaddids by Ahmadis and Al-Zamakhshari accepted as an authority by Mirza Ghulam Ahmad himself.

3- Similarly in Qur’an 4:157-158;

وَقَوْلِهِمْ إِنَّا قَتَلْنَا الْمَسِيحَ عِيسَى ابْنَ مَرْيَمَ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ وَمَا قَتَلُوهُ وَمَا صَلَبُوهُ وَلَكِنْ شُبِّهَ لَهُمْ وَإِنَّ الَّذِينَ اخْتَلَفُوا فِيهِ لَفِي شَكٍّ مِنْهُ مَا لَهُمْ بِهِ مِنْ عِلْمٍ إِلَّا اتِّبَاعَ الظَّنِّ وَمَا قَتَلُوهُ يَقِينًا () بَلْ رَفَعَهُ اللَّهُ إِلَيْهِ وَكَانَ اللَّهُ عَزِيزًا حَكِيمً

“And for their saying, .We have certainly killed the Masih Eisa the son of Maryam, the Messenger of Allah., while in fact they did neither kill him, nor crucify him, but they were deluded by resemblance. Those who disputed in this matter are certainly in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it, but they follow whims. It is absolutely certain that they did not kill him. But Allah lifted him towards Himself. Allah is All-Mighty, All-Wise.”

Here again just as وَمَا قَتَلُوهُ (and they killed him not), وَمَا صَلَبُوهُ (nor crucify him) and وَمَا قَتَلُوهُ يَقِينًا (and for a surety they killed him not) refers to the body of Eisa (A.S.); رَفَعَهُ اللَّهُ (Allah lifted him) also refers to the body of Eisa (A.S.) and not just his soul. Again there is no reason to drop body from رَفَعَهُ اللَّهُ (Allah lifted him).

A possible objection killed:

4- Ahmadis may refer to Qur’an 80:21

أَمَاتَهُ فَأَقْبَرَهُ

“He made him die, and put him into grave,”

And say that in أَمَاتَهُ (He made him to die) the personal pronoun refers to both body and soul while in فَأَقْبَرَهُ (put him into grave) it refers to either of them; hence it is not necessary that personal pronouns in a single sentence always refer to one and the same being.

Without going into long discussion if أَمَاتَهُ (He made him to die) refers to merely body or both body and soul, we can prove this assertion to be wrong in light of the simple fact that that with أَمَاتَهُ (He made him to die) there comes a separation between body and soul so naturally the personal pronoun in the word to follow can refer to either of them and not both. This is because of the separation between the two. While in Qur’an 4:157-158 such a separation between body and soul is out of question for Allah in most explicit terms declares;

وَمَا قَتَلُوهُ يَقِينًا (And for a surety the killed him not). Thus there is no separation between the body and soul and hence it baseless to drop body from the personal pronoun in رَفَعَهُ اللَّهُ (Allah lifted him).

The context of the verse refutes the Ahmadi belief:

5- In Qur’an 4:157-158 first the Jewish belief of their having killed Eisa (A.S.) is repudiated by saying وَمَا قَتَلُوهُ (and they killed him not) and then the Christian belief is denounced by saying وَمَا صَلَبُوهُ (nor crucify him) and then the belief of his ascension has been testified by saying بَلْ رَفَعَهُ اللَّهُ إِلَيْهِ (But Allah lifted him towards Himself). Had the belief of his physical ascension been baseless Allah would have denounced it as well.

Scholars on Raf’a of Eisa (A.S.):

6- All the classical scholars have taken Raf’a about Eisa (A.S.) in the meaning of physical ascent. See Tafsir Ibn Kathir, Tafsir Al-Kabir of Al-Raazi,  Aalusi, Shaukani’s Fath Al-Qadir, Jalalain, Durr Manthur, Baidhawi, Khazin etc.

Al-Raazi, Shaukani and Jalaluddin Suyuti have all been recognized as Mujaddids by Ahmadis.

Even Al-Zamakhshari takes the word Raf’a to mean physical ascension of Eisa (A.S.). See his Tafsir Kashshaf 1/280 under 3:55)

And Al-Zamakhshari is the one whom Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani himself praised and said;

“Matchless scholar of the Arabic language who cannot be disputed with.” (Baraheen Ahmadiyyah Part V p.381included in RK- vol.21)

So had there been any possibility of taking Raf’a to mean other than physical ascension this ‘Matchless Scholar’ would have done for sure. Will some Ahmadi now dispute with an authority reckoned as undisputable by their own pseudo-prophet?

Was raf’a in response to the idea of ‘cursed crucifixion’?

7- Ahmadis also try to suggest that as Jews in light of Book of Deuteronomy 21:22-23 held that the one crucified is the one accursed so to refute their belief Allah exalted Eisa (A.S.) in rank.

This again is a twisted argument;

a- Firstly seeking evidence with Biblical reference is allowed only when it goes in line with Qur’an and Sunnah but there is no support for such an idea in the entire Islamic rubric.

b- Even according to Deut. 21:22-23 only one crucified for a sin punishable by death is accursed and surely this was never the case with Eisa (A.S.).

c- In Qur’an 4:157-158 Allah strongly rejects the notion of his death and then says that ‘But he was raised’ this bringing in contrast to his idea of being killed. Is ‘rise in ranks’ opposite to being killed? Were the prophets killed unjustly cursed or something? Is giving ones life in the way of Allah as good as being cursed?

d-  Just two verses prior to it Qur’an mentions the killing of the Prophets by the Jews;

“And for their slaying of the prophets unjustly …” (Qur’an 4:155)

If raf’a refers to ‘being exalted’ and ‘rise in ranks’ then why was the same not mentioned about other Prophets killed unjustly? Why the personal pronoun attached with raf’a is singular? Were they not even martyrs holding the high office of prophethood?

e- The sole reason raf’a was not mentioned along with earlier Prophets is that it refers to physical ascension which happened in the case of Eisa (A.S.) only!

Where is the mention of sky?

8- Ahmadis say these verses are about Eisa’ (A.S.) being exalted to Allah and ask as to where is the mention of the sky in these verses?

The fact is that as per the Qur’anic usage the verses mean ‘being raised to sky’. The following references help in this regard;

“Have you become fearless of Him who is in the sky if He makes you sink into the Earth.” (Qur’an 67:16)

“Or, have you become fearless of Him who is in the sky if He looses a violent wind with stones against you?” (Qur’an 67:17)

And whenever the Holy Prophet (SAAW) waited for the revelation from Allah he looked up towards the sky;

“We have been seeing you turning your face to the heavens.” (Qur’an 2:144)

9- Having proved that being raised to Allah means ascension to the Heavens, will some Ahmadi explain if Raf’a means a rise in rank what is the purpose of Allah saying ‘raise you towards Myselfand the words ‘Allah lifted him towards Himself’?

Conclusion:

All the above details, testimonies of celebrated scholars and study into Qur’an, plainly establish the fact that the word Raf’a with reference to Eisa (A.S.) means physical ascension.

May Allah guide us all to the Truth!

Next we shall look into the other instances in Qur’an where the word Raf’a is used.

INDEED ALLAH KNOWS BEST!

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67 thoughts on “Quran & the Meaning of Raf’a -1

  1. Who do you hold most esteem? Hazrat Muhammad Rasullah (SAW) or Hazrat Esisa (AS)?being an Ahmadi muslim my stand with regard to this matter is very clear cut case, no others normal human being and no others prophets of Allah is the most esteem and the most beloved one than Rasul Karim Muhammad Rasullah (SAW) in the sight of Allah. Every time I read this sort of interpretation and understanding my heart bleeds so much and the pain is so unbearable because of the insults being hurl towards our beloved The Holy Prophet Muhammad (SAW) dignity.
    I have repeatedly stated in my previous post, SHOULD THERE BE ANY HUMAN BEING AMONG THE SERVENTS OF ALLAH THAT IS DERSERVED OR ENTITLED TO BE LIFTED BODILY AND LIVE IN THE HEAVEN THAT SPECIAL PERSON SHOULD BE NON OTHER THAN OUR BELOVED HOLY PROPHET MUHAMMAD(SAW) HIMSELF. unless you chose to believe that Eiasa(AS) is so special because you take him to be son of God as well as the christian do, which meant to indicate that your faith is half Muslim and half Christian.
    How do you explain the following incidents that is recorded in the history of Islam ;-
    a) Having heard the news of the demised The Holy Prophet Muhammad(SAW) Hazrat
    Omar(RA) seemed to have lost his mind and did not believe that The Holy Prophet
    (SAW) could died as normal human being, he was so furious even go to the extend
    of treathtening to beheaded others who said that The Holy Prophet(SAW) has
    passed away until Hazrat Abu Bakar(RA) managed to calmed him down by
    reciting the verse of The Holy Quraan “Who so believed in Allah certainly Allah
    live forever, who so believed in Muhammad he has died as those prophets before
    him has passed(gone) away” having heard this verse Hazrat Omar droped the
    sword that he hold and accepted the fact that the Holy Prophet Muhammad(SAW)
    has gone(passed) away.
    Now, do you think that Hazrat Omar (RA) did not know that according to holy
    Quraan Eiasa(AS) was lifted and live bodily in heaven? had he knew that do you
    think that he would just kept quiet and did protest against Hazrat Abu Bakar
    interpertation? do you take the present mullah or scholars know better that
    Hazrat Abu Bakar(RA) and Hazrat Omar (RA) in the Quraanic interpertation?
    My humble request is pls stop all the misleading and faulty interpertation that
    bring disgrace to the dignity of our beloved Holy Prophet Muhammad (SAW).

    • Your argument is based upon emotions rather than proofs and reasoning.

      do you know QURAN didnt call any one else messiah other than ESA Ibn Maryam(AS) so you can say on that as well that your heart bleeds coz Prophet (PUBH) is not called that.

      Or Moses (PUBH) is the one who spoke with GOD directly and no one else so you heart should bleed on that as well.

      I think ur heart is bleeding only coz this goes against ur belief and that its

      • Are you not being emotional yourself? otherwise you would have answered my question with simple YES or NO. yes you do hold Muhammad Rasulullah(SAW) to be the most esteem and the most beloved prophet of Allah or you can simply say with a big NO you don’t, now state your stand.
        Don’t make my toes laugh! all the messengers of Allah are messiah ( saviour)so what is the great deal if in the Quraan ESA Ibn Maryam(AS) is called messiah? anyway He(AS) was only a small messiah(saviour) because he was sent only to the lost tribes of Isralite. Muhammad Rasulullah(SAW) is the greatest Messsiah of all messiah because he was sent for the all mankind,
        refer to the Quraan if you doubt what I said.
        As long as your faith is half muslim and half christian you will find it difficult to see the excellent of The Holy Prophet Muhammad(SAW).
        Lastly I agreed with you that my heart is bleeding only coz this goes against my belief, what is my belief? my belief is The Holy Prophet Muhammad(SAW) is the most esteem, the most beloved prophet of Allah and the most excellent of all the messiah.

        • Please prove
          how jesus being raised up alive make Prophet make him inferior?

          Please show me where anyone else is referred to Messiah in QURAN? dont give ur lame assumptions bigger messiah or smaller messiah

          this is just coz this belief is against what u have been taught so u make excuse that ur heart bleeds 🙂

          as your left with no proofs so u try to play this emotional card of urs which wont gona work with any sane person

          • What do you mean by lame assumptions? isn’t it a fact that Jesus was sent for only the lost tribes of Isralite? thus make him to be only a small massiah, show me where does it stated in the Quran or even Bible that his message is meant for all mankind compare to The Holy Prophet Muhammad(SAW).
            All messengers of Allah function as the SAVIOUR (Messiah) regardless whether they are called so or not in the scripture, are you disputing that?
            The problem with you is, you prefer the small messiah, while I am being an Ahmadi muslim
            prefer the greatest messiah of all messiah Muhammad Rasulullulah(SAW).
            You know what, your behaviour is no different from those people who live during the time of those prophets of God, even after seeing the truth they kept on asking to see the prove.
            You can’t even afford to answer my questions with simple YES or NO, yet you feel that you are the best among all.

          • Again u assume that muslim says that his message is for all
            no muslims dont say that so please can u stop assuming stuff
            then u assumed that being raised up alive make some one superior is another assumption and u give this lame dialoge that ur heart bleeds just coz its against ur belief.

            So can you come up with any proof or not or u gona just keep assuming ?
            I asked why ur assume this make ESA(AS) superior?
            and where anyother messiah is mentioned?

          • You have no right to talk about prophets like that. Read this:

            Bukhari
            Volume 4, Book 55, Number 626:
            Narrated Abu Huraira:

            Once while a Jew was selling something, he was offered a price that he was not pleased with. So, he said, “No, by Him Who gave Moses superiority over all human beings!” Hearing him, an Ansari man got up and slapped him on the face and said, “You say: By Him Who Gave Moses superiority over all human beings although the Prophet (Muhammad) is present amongst us!” The Jew went to the Prophet and said, “O Abu-l-Qasim! I am under the assurance and contract of security, so what right does so-and-so have to slap me?” The Prophet asked the other, “Why have you slapped”. He told him the whole story. The Prophet became angry, till anger appeared on his face, and said, “Don’t give superiority to any prophet amongst Allah’s Prophets, for when the trumpet will be blown, everyone on the earth and in the heavens will become unconscious except those whom Allah will exempt. The trumpet will be blown for the second time and I will be the first to be resurrected to see Moses holding Allah’s Throne. I will not know whether the unconsciousness which Moses received on the Day of Tur has been sufficient for him, or has he got up before me. And I do not say that there is anybody who is better than Yunus bin Matta.”

    • And about Hazrat Umar (RA) again u assumed that he should have done that.
      thing is why would he do that when he already knew that Prophet Muhammad (PUBH) and QURAN it self predicted ESA(AS) return .

      so when you ppl are left with nothing you try this emotional stuff just coz it disagree with your beliefs.

      other wise there are many other thing coz of which u can say my heart bleeds 😀

      • Should Hazrat Omar (RA) hold the same belief as you do that the same Esa Ibn Maryam(AS) whom was sent to the lost tribes of Isralite would return then why didn’t he protest against Hazrat Abu Bakar(RA) who recited the Quranic verse saying that all the prophets before The Holy Prophet(SAW) have passed away? including Esa Ibn Maryam(AS).

        • Why he need to protest? coz he know that Prophet Muhammad (PUBH) predicted ESA(AS) return and he cant question Prophet (PUBH)

          plus didnt he knew from QURAN that very Soul has to die? so going by your standard he souldnt have even question about it 🙂

          thats the thing with ahmadies they keep assuming stuff which is not even there.

          • Yes every Soul has to die! includes the fromer ESA(AS) he has already dead as the normal human being, so there is no question of him coming back as the messiah. The next messiah will chosen by God among the followers of The Holy prophet Muhammad(SAW) as narrated in the hadith.

          • Again you missed the point.
            what I said is that yes QURAN says every soul has to die
            so like you assume that he should have questioned about ESA(AS) so we can assume that as he knows the quran he shouldnt have question about Prophet (PUBH) death even

    • However, Mirza Sb claims that it his part of his belief that Moses is alive in the Heavens. After listening to this belief of Mirza, Sulaiman should bleed to death.

    • Your basic argument is, had there been any human being who deserved to be raised to the heavens, it would have been the Prophet Muhammad صلى الله عليه و سلم. There are two points to be brought in response to this:

      A) You yourself do not believe that Muhammad صلى الله عليه و سلم is al-Maseeh. This title was only given to ‘Esa عليه السلام. However, this goes against your very premise: if ANY prophet deserved all honor, it should be Muhammad صلى الله عليه و سلم. There is no doubt that our master Sayydina Muhammad, Ashraf al-Ambiyya صلى الله عليه و سلم is the best of the prophets, most honored. But, that does not mean that there are things that were granted to ‘Esa عليه السلام that were not granted to him.

      B) We DO believe Muhammad صلى الله عليه و سلم was raised to the heavens. Its called the Mi’raaj. And it wasn’t just a dream 🙂

      May Allah guide the Ahmadis to Islam.

  2. I was waiting for this article for a long time , thanks for putting my request into effect brother Waqar ! Nice work !

    @ Sulaiman

    **My humble request is pls stop all the misleading and faulty interpretation that
    bring disgrace to the dignity of our beloved Holy Prophet Muhammad (SAW).**

    Faulty interpretation ? Prove it !

    Disgrace to the dignity of our beloved Holy Prophet Muhammad (SAW) ?
    Yeah please when would your community stop that ?

    P.S : Stop living in your emotional *IFs and BUTs* dream world.You have nothing authentic to say.Be brave, get back to Islam !

    • What prove do you need? it has been proven in the Quraan that Muhammad Rasulullah(SAW) is the most esteem and the most beloved prophet of Allah are you going to dispute that?
      What do you mean I have nothing authentic? is The Holy Quraan not authentic enough?
      You urged me to get back to Islam? which Islam are you refering to? Islam without leader to follow? or too many leaders to follow? either one are not true Islam because it does not conform with the basic core teaching of The Holy Prophet Muhammad(SAW) ONE COMMUNITY ONE LEADERSHIP.

      • Suleiman:
        explain it how Jesus being raised in any way make Prophet Muhammad (PUBH) inferior?

        you are making ur own standard which dont exist

  3. I will present my incompleted research work on this topic.

    1. Elijah in the Bible:
    2 Kings 2:11

    “And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, which parted them both assunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven. ”

    Elijah (as) was thought to have physically ascended to heaven. By christians and Jews. There are other prophets that are considered to have physically ascended to the heavens.

    And What about Idrees (as)? Idrees (as) is the prophet Enoch (as) as listed in the bible. This is what is written about Enoch (as):

    “By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.” (Hebrews 11:5 King James Version)

    translation=raffaa, in hebrew its “meta-tith-ay-mee”

    “By faith Enoch was taken up so that he should not see death; and he was not found, because God had taken him. Now before he was taken he was attested as having pleased God.” (Hebrews 11:5 Revised Standard Version)

    taken=rafffaa in Hebrew its “meta-tith-ay-mee”

    MGAQ never in his pointless existence tried to explain as to why christians and jews believed that other than Esa (AS) there were other prophets who physically ascended to the heavens.

    I also looked up the word Rafffa in the Quran in an attempt to figure out what it means. The word RAFFAA much like the english word raised has multiple interpretations. Sometimes it means a physical lifting and sometimes it means a raising in rank.

    Ahmadis argue that Mutawafeeka can only mean death, or some type of connection with death. Obviously, arabic words can have different meanings, based on the usage, nonetheless, the usage is always similiar. Mutawafeeka is “like death” similiar to what happened to Idrees (as). Allah even authenticated the biblical account of Idris (as). Allah did this by using the word RAFFFA for Idris (as).

  4. Also….

    Can you provide an online link to Lane’s Lexicon exactly where he defined the word Raffa? I know that this lexicon is online. I searched for over 2 hours in an attempt to find this reference and was unsuccessful.

    Here is the website: http://www.laneslexicon.co.uk/

  5. the Arabic meaning of the word (RAFA) clearly means to RAISE or ELEVATE but according to our Qadiani freinds this has diffrent meanings in other words they can twist words of the of the Holy Quran to suit themselves

    this is nothing new infact i read before Mirza had his so called dilutional prophecies his beliefs were in line with the Ahle Sunna Wal Jamma he believed that Esa (pbuh) was niether Killed or crucified but ALLAH raised him up just as mentioned in the Quran (4.158) but as time whent along he slowly changed his original stance on this and changed it to (we cause thee to die)

    and anyone with a half a brain can see that he was either lying or was dishonest when he said Esa (pbuh) had died

    • Are you with a half brain yourself? that’s why you are not able to see the excellent of The Holy Prophet Muhammad (SAW)? dont’t just argued for the sake of argument.

      • For full brainers who wrote:

        “my heart bleeds so much and the pain is so unbearable”

        A delight from Mr Mirza that will cause you an immediate heart attack and severe bleeding:

        یہ وہی موسی مرد خدا ہے جس کی نسبت قرآن میں اشارہ ہے کہ وہ زندہ ہے اور ہم پر فرض ہوگیا کہ ہم اس بات ایمان لاویں کہ وہ زندہ آسمان میں موجود ہے۔

        This is the same Musa man of God about whom Quran hints that he is alive and it has become farz (obligatory) on us to have emaan on the fact that he is present in heavens alive. Nur-ul-Haq 50.

        • Alive bodily? as you people believe Hazrat Esa(AS) alive bodily in heaven? I doubt if that is what Hazrat Ahmad meant to say.
          The crux of the matter here is whether Hazrat Esa(AS)
          was really lifted bodily and still alive bodily.

          • Please use the correct name for Mirza. His name was Ghulam Ahmad, not Ahmad. Ahmad is the name of our prophet, the Last Prophet (saw) whereas Ghulam Ahmad is the name of the charlatan you sold your soul to.

          • There is no islamic sect in the history of the known world that DENIED the physical return of ESA (as).

            This is a fact that Ahmadis stray from. Find me one islamic scholar who wrote that ESA (as) WOULD NOT physically return.

            The fact that his name is Esa (as) ibn Maryam proves that he is a singularity. Hadith wasnt referring to any other personality. Hadith and Quran spoke of a unique personality.

            And you ask if Esa (as) is still alive or not???? It doesnt even matter if he is alive or in a state of perpetual sleep…these are nto matters that we need to dwell on…

            Isaac Newton explained gravity. We thought we had figured everything out…Einstein came with ‘special rule’ for some special circumstances. The case of Esa (as) is similiar! Special rules and special circumstances.

          • I am awaiting your answer on Idris (as) and Elijah (as).

            Please figure out as to why it is written in the old testament that both of these people physically ascended to heaven. Then try to figure out as to why allah authenticated the account of Idris (as) by using the word RAFFFA.

            See 19: 58.

            Then read your jamaats official 5 volume commentary on the Quran and read where it is written that thise verse was revealed very early on at mecca.

            So before the story of ESA (as) was told. Allah authenticated the jewish story of Idris (as) or Enoch. Allah used the word RAFFA for Idris (as)…to this day christians believe that Enoch (as) never died but was taken (raffa) physically by Allah.

            good luck………..

          • I knew Qadianis are blind but that blind I never knew.

            He says it is part of our iman that Moses is alive and Jesus is not alive in the same paragraph.

            Why you need to have imaan on Moses being bodily alive. Spiritually everyone is alive, even Pharoah is alive.

            Dear Blind, Mirza says you must have that emaan that Moses is bodily alive – it is simple.

      • @Suliamanbin Adnan
        what is it that i didnt see excelllect of the prophet (saw) ? and what is it that u see more in the Holy prophet (saw) that we muslims fail to see ? or is that cultish brand of beliefs that holds firm grip on your life and many other of your fellow believers

  6. @ Sulaiman

    I am referring to the islam which was there 1400 years ago not something that was created 100 years ago and against islam ! I don’t really have a leader who asks for forced chanda payments or who is obsessed with money and who loves to deceive his followers to the full ! I do have a leader namely Muhammad (SAW) , observe the dignity of my leader that even in your cult you call him the best ! Alas ! You still follow a bunch of liars whom you call as some *divine leaders* !

    Indeed the Holy Quran is the most authentic. You still haven’t been able to bring up a respectable argument to defend ur liar ! Why are you making a situation to suit your standards ? Why did your leader did the same ? He definetly had no knowledge of the Quran. He tried to fit himself somehow in the Quran why are you so blind to see that ? I as a muslim once again urge you to have a thorough research on the topic and according to the beliefs of islam that were there 1400 years ago and not 100 !

    • Amazing! you are refering to the Islam which was there 1400 years ago which
      preached and practised one leadership system the basic hardcore teaching of
      The Holy Prophet Muhammad(SAW) yet, you people have forsake the system
      eventhough you claimed to be His(SAW) followers. I have posed a question before which goes unanswered allowed me to repeat the question again. Where
      does it occurred in the teaching of The Holy Prophet(SAW) that muslim should follow or have more than one leader?
      The true followers of Muhammad(SAW) of the latter days(Akhirrin) would resemble the earlier (Awallin) followers in this aspect, the system would be reenected in order to reestablish the Unity of God(TAWHEED ILLAHI) and Unity of Ummah(UKHWAH ISLAMIAH) that was to be the main objective of the mission of Muhammad Rasulullah(SAW). The Islam that you said was created 100 years ago is the only one has the pontentialty to accomplish this main objective of the mission of The Holy Prophet(SAW) because they accepted and practice the basic hardcore teaching of The Holy Prophet(SAW) one community one leadership. Islam that failed to accomplish this main objective is meaningless. Pls ponder seriously this point.
      Lastly, you are so cunning in playing sentiment of chanda issue payment hoping that you could score point because you realised that you have failed in many others aspect when you put up an argument.

        • here are the few sects of ahmadiyya that i know about:

          Sect of Ahmadiyya:
          1) Lahore Ahmadiyya Movement
          2) Jamaat ul Sahih al-Islam
          3) Haqiqat Pasand Party
          4) Ahmadiyya Muslim Community
          5) Jamaat Ahmadiyya al Mouslemine
          6) Anwar-Ul Islam Movement
          7) Green Ahmadiyya
          9) Ahmadiyya reform Movement

          • wow thats something NEW i didnt know the Qadiani/Ahmadiya were divided into so many little sects i thought there were only two or three sects that existed in this sect they are nothing but cults within cults and thats why they will be forever be divived within themselves

          • Here is another commical joke good to laugh at, in the country I reside there used to be a sect known as Treeqat-Ahmadiyya people got the wrong impression thinking that it originate from the Ahmadiyya Movement found by The Imam Mahdi. There used be a company running business in printing press namely THE AHMADIYYA PRINTING PRESS again they got the wrong impression. Brother. other than
            Lahore Ahmadiyya Movement(LAM) am not sure about the others, can you pls prove me with further details.

          • Sulaiman, there’s more than just the Lahori sect. There are several other sects.

            These sects are not just differences in the so-called Khalifah, they hold different theological beliefs. Nearly all consider Mirza Masroor to be an illegitimate leader. Others consider their founder to be a divine reformer, etc.

            Long story short, yes there are more than just 2 Ahmadi sects.

  7. @ Sulaiman

    I have pondered seriously on the issue you are bringing up and let me tell you something very seriously as well that ahmadiyya is not islam ! Its just totally hilarious the comment you made about your cult being successful in the main objectives ? Are you serious ? What has ahmadiyya done for islam in its cultish 100 years ? And wake up my sleeping friend
    you are not united , ahmadiyya itself is divided do you know that ? I think you seriously need to ponder on that yourself before you make your false statements im afraid. Mirza Ghulam Ahmad lied , all the successors lied , inhabitants of this cult were and are being deceived big time and you don’t see that yet.

    About that chanda issue ; im not exactly here to score some points :s im just here to convey you the message which you are cunningly ignoring. I have no reason to drift away from the issue , if you have so much truth inside you or your cult . Provide some authenticity and prove your point ! Lets see who drifts away from the topic , just answer my one simple question authentically : where in the quran or the hadith is it written to pay 6.25% of chanda from your wealth and compulsary ?

    Stick to the topic first and then perhaps answer my simple question if you can.

    • Yes! what has Ahmadiyya done for Islam over the span of 100 years of it existance? what do you expect? to conquer the whole world? during the last 100 years Ahmadiyya has successfuly reestablished The Institution Of Khilafat in Islam(one leadership system) the system that was once enected and practiced by The Holy Prophet(SAW) himself and His (SAW) successors
      during the era of Khulafa Rashida, unfortunately, the system was sabotage
      by some internal crook who hunger for power and it has lost it purity been replaced by the so call khilafat but was so impure and corrupted (monarchy system) by the Grace of Allah with the advent of the Imam Mahdi/Imam Of The Age the system has been reenected/revived under the umbrella of Khalifatul Masih, yet, I do not deny that are certain elements who tried to do the same during the era of Khulafa Rashida to sabotage the system that is why
      you could see as if Ahmadiyya itself is divided but as long as the ahmadis do not misbehave that’s to rebel against the Khalifah as those early muslim did,
      InshaAllah, the system will remain intact and the safety of Islam and ummah is guaranteed.
      Next let us go to your question with regard whether it is written in the Quraan or hadith to pay 6.25% of chanda, obviously it is foolish to expect to see the exact figure been written isn’t it? but if we were to understand it in the aspect of making sacrifice in the path of God you would not be asking whether it is compulsory or not because Allah never imposed or used forcing elements for us to make sacrifice in His path, what is needed from us is sincerity and voluntarily act! no doubt in The Quraan Allah urged us to spend in His way
      as it goes to say in chp 2 verse 3 “WA MIM MA RAZAQ NA HOOM YUN FIQOON” and spend out of what we have provided for them. This is exactly what the Ahmadis are doing some spend more than expected depends on the spirit of sacrificing and affordable means, some even do not if they really cannot afford to, so the question of they being deceived is only your nonsensical and notorious thinking as you failed to understand the concept of
      sacrificing in the way of Allah.
      I hope that I have my point clear.

      • So you admit Ahmadiyya is divided as I stated. You admit more than one leader. You rendered your entire argument invalid.

      • Sulaiman,

        You say “during the last 100 years Ahmadiyya has successfuly reestablished The Institution Of Khilafat in Islam(one leadership system) the system that was once enected and practiced by The Holy Prophet(SAW) himself and His (SAW) successors”

        To keep on harping about your pseudo caliphs(for that is exactly what they are, regardless of whatever you may say), it looks like you have have a broken record which is stuck at one place!
        The system established by the Muslim Ummah ruled over a substantial part of the then known world. Your pseudo caliph rides a german manufactured car, with his HQ’s in a former imperialist power(U.K).
        Shame on you for having the temerity to compare him with the likes of the Khulfa-Rashideen!

        • To compare these “caliphs” success in this life and the next is ridiculous to compare to Umar, Uthman, Ali and Abu Bakr. In a 100 years they did 1000x the work of these “Caliphs”

          How can you compare a 5 year olds hand painting to the Mona Lisa?

        • Stop being childish! Masood Habib, what a stupid comparison you made between the two era, were there
          German manufactured car during the era of of Khulafa Rasheeda? if those caliphs namely Abu Bakar,Omar Othman and Ali(RA) were to be around today to be the leaders of the world wide muslim community it would suit to their status to ride bicycle? common brother! get you mind straight don’t be tounge looser to say something and become laughing-stock.
          HQ’s in (U.K). voluntarily or been forced by the tyranny
          of the so called muslim regime?

          • Do you even remember what happened with Hazrat Omer (RA) when he was question by other companions (RA) about the shirt he wore?

            on other hand in ur jammat no one even dare to question Mirza Masroor(paper reader) or any family member of mirza ghulams family.

            can you tell us the source of income of Mirza Masroor?

      • as for your khilafa bro well iam sorry to say this but your cults leadership is not the khilafa according to islam and we can debate this from the islamic point of view coz the (khilafatu Rasullaah) that was started after the demise of Rasullaah that was the true leadership within this ummah and they were united upon the Tawhid and the finality of the prophethood of Rausullaah.
        make no doubt your cults leadership that u call khilafa is a family run business infact the Mirzas descendants are living of the fat they milk of their devotees from their daily chanda alms.
        i even heard they are encouraging their young ones to start making their chanda collection as well.

        whats does that say about your leadership? i can only say that this is nothing but a family run business that is milking your blind followers pay a 6.25 chanda alms so they can fill their pockets

  8. After talking to Brother Nouman Ali Khan recently, he mentioned how the Quran talks about Allah taking someone away. He said if we look into the Quran where the Quran lays down the punishment for adulterous women (in early phase of Islam) it says to confine them to their home untill Allah takes them away BY MEANS OF DEATH (something to that effect).

    He said the Quran has implicit and explicit terms. To take someone away is an implicit word that need to be qualified. Take away where? To the gym? The club? Where and how? Well, the Quran qualified this term by saying by means of death.

    The same word is used for Isa (as) when the Quran says Allah took him. This remains implicit. The Quran never qualified it as “by means of death” or anything else. It remains implicit. Had this word meant “took away by death”, then the ayah referring to the women being taken away by death would have read, “confine them until Allah takes them away by death by death”. This would be meaningless.

    Hence the Quran never said Allah took him by means of death. He is still alive and is with Allah.

  9. @ Sulaiman

    Your unknown cult has done absolutely nothing for islam in a 100 years ! Have you ever tried giving a research on the hadiths regarding the Imam Mahdi ? Do you know what is going to be the status of the world during his era and afterwards ? If you have truly read all that well let me ask you right now what change do you see in the world of today ? There are fitnahs like you against Islam everywhere , the christian missionaries are still doing their jobs as they were doing even during the time of your liar prophet ! Where is that global peace that was supposed to be there during the time of the Imam ? It is going to be so obvious when the Imam Mahdi comes into this world , it wont be anything like your liar ! People , some even from your own cult don’t even know the name of that so called promised messiah ! Is this what you call * the revivial of Islam ? *

    when you yourself are admitting the fact that your cult itself is divided then where does the fact of unity comes ? This means now you fight over if MGA was a prophet or not ? Was this also supposed to happen ? The followers of the Imam are going to be divided ? Is this what you are saying ? I really don’t see any unity at all and there is no such thing as *pure* when you talk about your khalifahs ! You are quite unlucky if you haven’t read the stories of Mirza Basheer and others ! I would love to question you about such a purity later on. That only time can tel !

    About your chanda answer , that was all that I was expecting. Lets analize what you just answered ::

    It is not foolish to say or to ask where is it written to pay 6.25% of chanda because IT IS AN OBLIGATION in your cult ! Indeed God has asked us to sacrifice in His path but God hasn’t MADE IT AN OBLIGATION ! Im not saying we shouldn’t pay chanda, we should sacrifice in the path of God as much as we like without any limits and whenever we want but WE SHOULD NOT BE FORCED TO PAY AN EXACT LIMITED ACCOUNT AND OBLIGATORY ! If it was an obligation God would have written about it in the Holy Quran just like zakat ! Do you understand that ? The only thing obligatory in Islam is Zakat ! Zakat which has been mentioned quite briefly in the Quran. Its morals and exact values ! There is nothing about chanda like that in the Quran ! And you just made a false statement over there , everyone and i repeat everyone is forced to give chanda else he/she gets kicked out of the jammat with a social boycott ! Ask those Muslims who have now left your cult ! You don’t even know where does your chanda exactly goes to. All you know is that as a member of the jammat you MUST pay chanda ! And if Islam is already a complete religion and if it doesn’t require any new rules or laws then where exactly did this % come from ? Isin’t this something new ? Think about it…

    And im sure you know about that *divine graveyard* as well , its also related to your chanda aam ! I would throw some light on that as well later on !

  10. Prior to the advent of Imam Mahdi most muslim were in the dark about the truth of Eisa(AS) they held the same believe as the christian do that Eisa(AS) was bodily lifted
    and still alive in the heaven, eventhough they don’t take Him(AS) to be son of God as the christian do, yet, they strongly believe that the apostle whom God sent meant for the lost tribes of Isralite would return as the saviour for the ummah of the most esteem and beloved prophet of Allah Muhammad Rasulullah(SAW) what a disgrace!
    this errornous was corrected by the Imam Mahdi 100 years ago by informing the muslim world that Eisa(AS) has died a natural death as the normal human being, unfrotunately you people refused to accept and chose instead to maintain the christian
    believe, that is why the christian missionaries are still doing their jobs, because of you people subscribe to their faith, despite that you got a cheek to accuse us of spreading fitnah? now answer me who do you hold the most esteem and the most beloved prophet of Allah? Muhammad Rasulullah(SAW) or Eisa(AS)? this is what Ahmadiyya has done for Islam to defence the intergrity and dignity of The Holy Prophet Muhammad(SAW) by shaterring the basic tenet of christianity faith.
    Did I admitted that Ahmadiyya itself is divided? or did I said there are certain elements of sabotage who tried to do the same during the era of Khulafa Rashida
    to break the Institution of Khilafat but they would not successful in the case of Ahmadiyya as long as the Ahmadis remain obedient and do not rebel against Khalifa?
    Are you saying that it is unislamic for the Ahmadis to observe rules and regulations
    as prescribes in the organisation they belong to that conform with the spirit of sacrificing as required in Islam? is not zakat also about spirit of sacrificing? do you mean to say that Ahmadis after having observe other forms of sacrificing therefore they have forsake zakat? what actually are you trying to tell me? doing sacrificing is virtue whether obligatory or non obligatory, do you mean to say Islam against virtue?
    or yourself against virtue that is why you keep on stressing oh! non obligatory because it does not mentioned in the scripture of God, therefore, no matter how moraly or virtue the act is you would still classified it as something bad according to your standard.
    You see how filthy your mind is and as I said your brain full of nonsensical and notorious thinking.

  11. To start of, I am not here to debate because sometimes it is easier for people to get the guidence from Allah then to keep explaining the issue over and over again, and since most of you people do not have respect to call the prophet of Allah with a respect that he deserves, i can only feel pity for you.
    Coming back to the point that i read few posts ago, Ahmadiyya Muslim Jamat is not divided into any sect. There is one and only Ahmadiyya Muslim Jamat. The other sect that you may refer to is the Lahori Ahmadiyya Movement but it is not part of Ahmadiyya Jamat as they have different beleifs. And you can go and read their books in order to get better knowledge. Now its funny how you came up with all these names, i mean its very creative but please do not spread the wrong message (made up names of Jamat ) to the innocent people as it will go against you on the day of judgement. All the members of Ahmadiyya muslim Jamat are united behind its Imam and we are proud of it.
    Secondly coming back to the chanda, first of can you find me a verse that says how many raqat of namaz we have to pray in fajar, zhur, asar, maghrib, and isha. so therefore same as that no where in Quran it says that you have to pay 6.25% of chanda and i belive everyone with little common sense one can understand that. Now Mr suleiman has already given the answer about chanda therefore i will not go in detail.

    Our duty from Allah is to spread the message of Islam, and we are doing that. It is up to you to belive it or not, Abu jahal did not belive in Islam because he thought he was one of the best scholar and how can Hazrat Muhammah pbuh be better then him. That is what made him abu jahal. so lets think logical and don’t pretend to be smarter then the prophets of Allah, otherwise Allah will punish you, sooner or later.

    • Poor deluded cultee, Islam is not divided at all by your weird rationale. How deeply into the sand can you bury your head? Do you ever read the rubbish you write?

    • waheed All I would say is that come out of denial.
      and do some research.

      Yes Mirza thought that he is smarter than Prophet (PUBH) but he failed badly.

  12. Two lines forward for Blind Qadianis:

    یہ وہی موسی مرد خدا ہے جس کی نسبت قرآن میں اشارہ ہے کہ وہ زندہ ہے اور ہم پر فرض ہوگیا کہ ہم اس بات ایمان لاویں کہ وہ زندہ آسمان میں موجود ہے اور مردوں میں سے نہیں۔
    مگر یہ بات کہ حضرت عیسی آسمان سے نازل ہونگےسو ہم نے اس خیال کا باطل ہونا اپنی کتاب حمامہ البشری میں بخوبی ثابت کردیا ہے اور خلاصہ اسکا یہ ہے کہ ھم قرآن میں بغیر وفات حضرت عیسی کے اور کچھ ذکر نہیں پاتے
    This is the same Musa man of God about whom Quran hints that he is alive and it has become farz (obligatory) on us to have emaan on the fact that he is present in heavens alive and he is not one of the dead ones.
    But the fact that Hazrat Issa will descend from heavens so we have proven this thought to be false in our book Hamamat-ul-Bushra and summary of that is that we don’t find anything in Quran other than the death of Hazrat Issa.

    Here Mirza Sb has categorically said the Hazrat Issa has died and Hazrat Mosa is alive. Blind Qadianis can read with their eyes – if they have one.

  13. i don’t really have enough knowledge or authority in the arabic language to make this comment but i’ll make it anyway, just in case i make a good point. somebody with more knowledge of tafsir and arabic can validate my point if it is even a point.

    if we interpret rafa as being raised in rank, the word after, “ilay” or “to me” means that esa alayhi salaam was raised to the rank of allah the most high. sounds kinda shirky.

    anyway, here’s a very nice recitation by sheikh mahmood shahat of the verses being discussed from ali imran.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FmCqH6Pro0

    • Dear Brother,

      I strongly disagree with your position regarding “Rafa-Ullah o Ilay”.

      Here’s the translation as posted in this article of the verse 4:155

      “……contrary Allah exalted him to Himself.” (4:158)

      “To Himself” rather means “towards Himself”. The objection you’re raising is completely applicable if you interpret “rafa” to mean “Physical Ascension”. It would mean Allah exalted Esa(A.S) where he “physically” was. On the contrary the Quran says

      “Allahu noor-us-samawate wal arz” (Allah is the noor of the heavens and the Earth). If i take your logic, it leads me to conclude the “Esa(A.S) is also the noor of heavens of the Earth”. Can you imagine how absurd it turns out to be.

      There is an explicit ayat in the holy Quran 2:253. It is the first ayah of the 3 para of the holy Quran.

      Please refer to this Ayah and you will have the answer

      How Allah “raises”(rafa) His Rasools?

      Thankyou!

      JazakAllah

      • hello! thanks for your friendly delivery, i really appreciate it.

        nobody deduces from “allahu noor us-samawati wa al-ard” that allah is everywhere. imam as-sayuti rahimah ullah, the mujaddid of the 9th century according to ahmadi literature said in tafsir jalalayn,

        “God is the Light of the heavens and the earth, in other words, He illumines both of them with the sun and the moon. ”

        he understood it is as, allah is the source of the light of the heavens and the earth, as in he lights it up.

        and for “wa rafiuka ilay” he says,

        “and raising you to Me, away from the world without death,”

        so esa alayhi salam won’t be the light of the heavens and the earth because allah is not the heavens and the earth. and imam as-suyuti said that “rafiuka ilay” meant to take esa alayhi salam away from the world, not put him in it.

        the verse you referred to in surat ul-baqarah says allah raised them in darajat. that word explains that it was a raise in rank but no mention of darajat was given in the verse from ali-imran or nisa. and if you say it is in darajat then like i said in my previous post, saying allah the most high exalted esa to his (allah’s) status is weird. i don’t like it. that’s what christians say.

        btw, i’m relying on a translation of tafsir jalalayn, if you have the original arabic of the imam’s tafsir, it might differ with what i’m saying. so i apologize in advance if i made any mistakes.

      • Verse or Muslims didnt say that Rafa was to the level of ALLAH
        so please dear dont assume instead go read the classical scholors on the verse

  14. This is a really amazing article. I’m impressed. I’d like to add my two cents.

    In almost every example of Allah “spirituality elevating” someone, which we Muslims do not deny, Allah qualifies the ‘raising’ by specifically adding a word to indicate it means ‘rank’ or ‘position’.

    These are usually the words Maqaam (station), Ba’adhah (position), or Darajah (degree of rank).

    For example, Surah al-‘An’am, verse 82 where Allah says:
    “And that was Our [conclusive] argument which We gave Abraham against his people. **We raise by degrees whom We will**. Indeed, your Lord is Wise and Knowing.”

    The Arabic is:
    narfaAAu (We raise) darajatinman (by degrees) nashao (who We will)

    In pretty much every other example, Allah specifically says “in position” or “in “rank”. Had rafa’a *only* mean spiritual raising, it would be redundant and ultimately unnecessary for Allah to say that.

    May Allah continue to guide the Ahmadis away from Ahmadism and to Islam

    • Assalam O Alaikum Farhan

      If in most of the places “Rafa” is followed by “Darajatin” (rank), it is evident that wherever it is being used specifically for “people”, it means only “spiritual elevation”. Your argument seems rather weak and lacking any evidence i.e “If Allah hasn’t used “darajatin”(rank) with “Rafa” it means “bodily ascension”. The corresponding word for “bodily” is “Ajsaman” in arabic if i am not wrong.

      How is your logic justified when not even a single verse from the Quran mentions the “bodily ascension” (Rafa-Ajsaman) of Allah’s Messenger (Allah’s Messenger being the keyword, i am not referring to the Rafa of some random physical object). On the contrary, there are numerous verses of “Rafa Darajatin”.

      The Qurn explicitly answers “How Messengers are raised towards Allah?”

      In 2:253 “These Messengers have we exalted some of them above other, among them there are those to whom Allah spoke, and some of them he EXALTED IN DEGREES OF RANK” (Rafa-Darajatin)

      I hope you don’t count Esa(A.S) out of the “Messengers” This verse categorically speaks of all the Messengers whom Allah blessed with “Rafa”. HOW? it’s “Darajatin”

      One of Allah’s name is “Al-Rafae” (the one who raises/exalts). Is it because he exalts people in their ranks or because he raised the body of Esa(A.S) to save him from the jews? you decide.

      Wassalam.

    • I forgot to add

      It is not necessary that Allah has to mention over and over again “Rafa” with darajatin when He has laid the basic principle that He exalted His Messengers in rank including Esa(A.S) in 2:253.

      • I think you are forgetting that RAFA in QURAN is not just of Darjat. so you cant just assume that every time Rafa is use its of Darjat

  15. @ Sulaiman

    ***this errornous was corrected by the Imam Mahdi 100 years ago by informing the muslim world that Eisa(AS) has died a natural death as the normal human being, unfrotunately you people refused to accept and chose instead to maintain the christian***

    Do you have any idea what you just said ? Muslims were not really in any sort of doubt since the begining of Islam ! Muslims believed that Isa(AS) was raised up and didn’t die.Your so called * Imam Mahdi* held the same belief do you know that ? Have you ever tried reading his books ? I guess not…
    And it was him who was a firm supporter of the british ! Not the Muslims ! You should really get to know about your uncle tom of that time ! Infact even now if you look at yourself , you are still licking the boots of the British ! That is something you can’t deny because its a fact infront of every Muslim ! The starting of the ahmadiyya movement didn’t bring any change in the world at all ! Infact it has made it worse ! Muhammad SAW did warn the Muslims about such charlatans like your prophet , we are lucky to be not a part of it Alhumdulillah !

    ****believe, that is why the christian missionaries are still doing their jobs, because of you people subscribe to their faith, despite that you got a cheek to accuse us of spreading fitnah? now answer me who do you hold the most esteem and the most beloved prophet of Allah? Muhammad Rasulullah(SAW) or Eisa(AS)? this is what Ahmadiyya has done for Islam to defence the intergrity and dignity of The Holy Prophet Muhammad(SAW) by shaterring the basic tenet of christianity faith.****

    You have been a part of the british boot licking community ever since you were born infact ever since this cult of yours started ! Your murrabis resemble the christian missionaries and they carry out their operations in such backward areas where it is easier for them to fool innocent people ! About your * islamic question * , I as a Muslim would strongly prefer you to read this hadith before you reflect your unislamic habits inherited by your prophet !

    Bukhari
    Volume 4, Book 55, Number 626:
    Narrated Abu Huraira:

    Once while a Jew was selling something, he was offered a price that he was not pleased with. So, he said, “No, by Him Who gave Moses superiority over all human beings!” Hearing him, an Ansari man got up and slapped him on the face and said, “You say: By Him Who Gave Moses superiority over all human beings although the Prophet (Muhammad) is present amongst us!” The Jew went to the Prophet and said, “O Abu-l-Qasim! I am under the assurance and contract of security, so what right does so-and-so have to slap me?” The Prophet asked the other, “Why have you slapped”. He told him the whole story. The Prophet became angry, till anger appeared on his face, and said, “Don’t give superiority to any prophet amongst Allah’s Prophets, for when the trumpet will be blown, everyone on the earth and in the heavens will become unconscious except those whom Allah will exempt. The trumpet will be blown for the second time and I will be the first to be resurrected to see Moses holding Allah’s Throne. I will not know whether the unconsciousness which Moses received on the Day of Tur has been sufficient for him, or has he got up before me. And I do not say that there is anybody who is better than Yunus bin Matta.”

    With that Hadith let me tell you something , do you know that your prophet crossed this limit ? Do you even care to know about that ? Or would you just love to stick to your assumptions and IFs and BUTs ? You still haven’t been able to bring up a respectable argument to the topic and you are repeating non sense stuff over here ! And BELIEVE IT OR NOT YOU ARE DIVIDED AND THAT’S A FACT YOU CANT CHANGE .However its a good to thing of yourself as united sometimes because thats just how your leaders want to keep you brainwashed for the rest of your life !

    **** Q1 > Are you saying that it is unislamic for the Ahmadis to observe rules and regulations as prescribes in the organisation they belong to that conform with the spirit of sacrificing as required in Islam? ****

    If they already belong to a cult that has nothing to do with Islam , be my guest ! You don’t even understand the organization of Islam so stop playing with its morals and values !

    **** Q2 > is not zakat also about spirit of sacrificing? do you mean to say that Ahmadis after having observe other forms of sacrificing therefore they have forsake zakat? ****

    Yes Zakat is and it is obligatory in Islam as mentioned by Allah ! Ahmadies are free to observe other forms of sacrificing but they shouldn’t be *forced* to give these other forms of sacrifices do you understand that ? Forsake zakat ? Did I ever say that ? NO! You have to pay the required amount of Zakat AS INSTRUCTED BY ALLAH SPECIFICALLY AND WITH A PROPER VALUE !

    ****Q3 > doing sacrificing is virtue whether obligatory or non obligatory, do you mean to say Islam against virtue? ****

    And if you don’t pay chanda you get kicked out of the jammat IS THAT ALSO A VIRTUE? Does Islam kicks those out of its shadow if someone fails once or twice or even forever to be a *forced virtuous person* ? Its like saying that your cult controls the faith of a person ? Are you even in your senses when you write such nonsense arguments?

    And did I say its bad according to Islam ? Assuming stuff again are we my blind friend? Grow up already ! Allah SWT has asked Muslims to pay Zakat ! Allah SWT doesn’t prevent the Muslims from giving a sacrifice in His path and AS MUCH AS HE DESIRES , to give or not to give sacrifices is upto the Muslim ! You shouldn’t become like a daddy of their faith ! GIVING A FIXED OBLIGATORY AMOUNT OF CHANDA IS NOT IN ISLAM DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT ? OR WOULD YOU STILL LOVE TO MOVE AROUND WITH YOUR IFS AND BUTS AND ASSUMING YOUR OWN MORALS OF ISLAM ?

    You totally failed to answer my one simple question.What else can i expect from an ahmadi.

  16. Mr Abdul Basit, Thank you for this entertaining writing of yours though I find it not enlightening and beneficial at all, yet, I do appreciate it coz I know that you are doing it just to throw your TANTRUM!! you keep on repeating the same filthy things therefore, it is of no used for me to engage you fruther but believe me this sort of writing will definitely failed to convince anyone with clear thinking and heart.
    I have said enough good luck with your endeavour.

  17. @ Sulaiman

    Good luck being a blind client of your filthy business machine.See you with your Ghulam on the judgement day i guess.Too bad you fail to realise that you failed in every aspect and don’t worry this blog and forum helps a lot of people but not actually brain washed people like you.May God guide you back to Islam.Thats all what there is for you ! Amin !

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