John Hugh Smyth-Pigott

In September 1902 a man by the name of John Hugh Smyth-Pigott of the Agapemonites made claim to be God incarnate coinciding with his proclamation that he was the Second Coming of the Messiah on Earth. Upon hearing this claim Mirza Ghulam Ahmad informed J.H. Smyth-Pigott of his impending doom within his lifetime if he persists in his claim that he is God and does not repent i.e. Mirza Ghulam Ahmad would live to see the death of J.H. Smyth-Pigott of the Agapemonites or Pigott would repent during his lifetime.

Agapemonites, translated as “Adobe of Love” in Greek, was a Christian religious sect existing from 1846-1956 established in Somerset, England. The Agapemonites or Community of The Son of Man were founded by Henry James Prince (1811-1899), who broke away from the Church of England in claiming that the Holy Ghost had taken up residence in his body. He ironically claimed to be immortal but died in 1899 and was succeeded by John Hugh Smyth-Pigott, he too claimed immortality and after his death the cult went into decline until the last member died in 1956.

The Agapemonites beliefs centred around eccentric views on marriage, the Messiah, immortality and the role of women. On September 7th 1902, John Hugh Smyth-Pigott, born 1852, proclaimed that he was the Second Coming of the Messiah and that he was “God not man” and stated “God is no longer there” pointing upwards, “but here” pointing to himself, thus sparking riots in the streets of London as several thousand people mocked the congregation and chased him to shouts of ‘hypocrite’ as he resorted to police protection to resist the attacks. Consequently, J.H. Smyth-Pigott relocated to Somerset where he continued his movement centred around power, sex, money and womanising by demanding a chain of brides, allegedly seven a week, whom he named ‘soul brides’, later investigations showed that these ‘soul brides’ were not only spiritual but physical too, and some produced illegitimate children. He was defrocked by the Church of England under the Clergy Discipline Act on a charge of immorality as a result of his illicit affairs to which his reaction was “I am God. It does not matter what they do”. He died at the age of seventy-five from influenza and was succeeded by Douglas Hamilton who did not have the youth or the charisma to enable the movement to grow. The movement itself gradually ceased to exist due to the boast of immortality of its leaders who then passed away negating the belief of their alleged undying life.

Mirza Ghulam Ahmad came to know of the claim put forward by J.H. Smyth-Pigott and in response, a disciple of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, Mufti Muhammad Sadiq, wrote in English for Mirza Ghulam Ahmad a letter to be circulated in England directed towards J.H. Smyth-Pigott. The letter/leaflet was entitled ‘A Warning To A Pretender To Divinity’.

“J.H. Smyth Pigott, Pastor of… London, has recently announced himself as God… on the 7th and 14th of September 1902… God has, therefore, commanded me to warn him… I, therefore, warn him through this notice that if he does not repent of this irreverent claim, he shall be soon annihilated, even in my life-time… God has borne witness to my truth with heavenly signs shown in thousands… The death of Mr. Pigott within my life-time shall be another sign of my truth. If I die before Mr. Pigott, I am not the true Messiah nor am I from God… God shall bring the false Messiah to destruction within the life-time of the true one… 24th November 1902.” (A Warning To A Pretender To Divinity)

Direct Link: http://wiki.qern.org/mirza-ghulam-ahmad/publications/a-warning-to-a-pretender-to-divinity

The above letter cannot be found on the official website and even Ahmadiyya lists, compiled to detail the works of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, fail to mention this letter/leaflet presented above. It is unsurprisingly unknown, unlisted and unavailable in order to suppress the failed prophecy contained within it. Why would they hide the works of their Prophet/Mahdi/Messiah? Why would they hide the alleged words of God contained within this ‘prophecy’? This material has been hidden from followers of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad for obvious reasons, however thorough research will always lead one toward the truth and as much as the Ahmadiyya community have tried to suppress this subject, scatters of remnants can be found on the official website which eventually echoes the reality of this prophecy. The first indication outside of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad himself comes from his second successor and son, Mirza Bashir Mahmud Ahmad.

“Hazrat Mirza Sahib… issued another leaflet sometime in 1903. This leaflet was called Prophecies about Dowie and Piggott. Piggott was a pretender in England… he prayed: ‘God, ordain that the falsehood of Piggott and Dowie may soon become patent to people.’ This leaflet also was published in the West on a very large scale. Newspapers in Europe and America commented upon it. The Glasgow Herald in Britain and the New York Commercial Advertiser in America published summaries of it. Millions of persons came to know of it.” (An Invitation To Ahmadiyya – Argument 10 – Prophecies)

Direct Link: http://www.alislam.org/books/invitation/arg10.html

The rest of the section, in his book, ‘An Invitation To Ahmadiyya’, fails to mention J.H. Smyth-Pigott again but continues focusing on Alexander Dowie. However, Mirza Bashir Mahmud Ahmad mentions that the prophecy has been published in newspapers throughout Europe and America. The monthly eGazette on the official website gives yet more details on this subject and notice how this edition which utilises a newspaper article from 1907 only concentrates on Alexander Dowie and does not mention J.H. Smyth-Pigott in the slightest.

“What Did USA Newspapers Say About Alexander Dowie? The Sunday Herald, Boston, June 23, 1907 wrote, “Great is Mirza Ghulam Ahmad the Messiah Foretold Pathetic End of Dowie.” (April 2009 eGazette)

Direct Link: http://www.alislam.org/egazette/egazette/april-2009-egazette/

The April 2009 edition of the monthly eGazette magazine shows an image of an article entitled ‘Great Is Mirza Ghulam Ahmad The Messiah’ said to be contained in the Sunday Herald, Boston dated June 23rd 1907. You can’t help but notice that that image of the newspaper on the April issue of the official monthly eGazette (above) magazine is hard to read, more importantly, why have they completely ignored the prophecy concerning John Hugh Smyth-Pigott contained within it? The quote below taken from the newspaper article is in essence from the letter entitled ‘A Warning To A Pretender To Divinity’. The full image is given below and then a close up to verify the quote concerning J.H. Smyth-Pigott is given which reflects the letter entitled ‘A Warning To A Pretender To Divinity’.

“Great Is Mirza Ghulam Ahmad” (The Sunday Herald, Boston, June 23 1907)

Direct Link: http://www.thecult.info/forum/download/file.php?id=73

Below is a close up of the first column, specifically the bottom left hand paragraph:

“A sign of the evidence of God in my favor will appear on the death of Mr. Pigott, the arrogant pretender to divinity, who shall be brought to destruction within my lifetime…” (The Sunday Herald, Boston, June 23 1907)

Direct Link: http://www.thecult.info/forum/download/file.php?id=74

Let there be no doubt that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad has prophesised that John Hugh Smyth-Pigott would die within his lifetime. In particular note the fact that he said “If I die before Mr. Pigott, I am not the true Messiah nor am I from God”. Below is verification of the date Mirza Ghulam Ahmad died.

“…died at Lahore on May 26th 1908” (Tadhkirah 2006 Version – Page 5)

Direct Link: http://www.alislam.org/library/books/Tadhkirah.pdf

Below is confirmation of the death of John Hugh Smyth-Pigott:

“After Smyth-Pigott died in 1927, the community went into gradual decline…” (The Telegraph – The Chapel Of Unrest)

Direct Link: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/property/propertyadvice/propertymarket/3325822/The-chapel-of-unrest.html

Conclusion

Recall the words of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad in relation to J.H. Smyth-Pigott, “…he shall be soon annihilated, even in my life-time… The death of Mr. Pigott within my life-time shall be another sign of my truth. If I die before Mr. Pigott, I am not the true Messiah nor am I from God…” What more evidence can one ask to establish the falsehood of this charlatan? Mirza Ghulam Ahmad died in the year 1908, 18 years, 9 months and 24 days before J.H. Smyth-Pigott, are you then surprised that this information is concealed from naive followers of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad? In his own words he states that should he die before the pretender J.H. Smyth-Pigott then he is not the true Messiah nor is he from God. History testifies that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad died more than 18 years before J.H. Smyth-Pigott and therefore his prophecy failed and consequently it proves that he was not from God. These were his conditions, his words and those of his God, not mine or those of any other individual.

This obviously creates a dilemma for his followers, and anyone who has come across previous failed prophecies with identical premises will already know the defence they would put up. The claim would be that J.H. Smyth-Pigott secretly repented within his heart and therefore the prophecy came true. However, this is far from the truth as a year after the death of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad who died in 1908, J.H. Smyth-Pigott was defrocked by the Church of England in 1909 on a charge of immorality to which his reaction was “I am God. It does not matter what they do”. Does this sound like he repented or intended to repent? In addition to this the followers of J.H. Smyth-Pigott proclaimed upon his death that their ‘Messiah’ lives for evermore as shown in the Australian newspaper, Argus and the statement from his granddaughter that his grave was left open because they expected him to rise. If this is not enough then refer to the quote below by Mirza Ghulam Ahmad that J.H. Smyth-Pigott will not repent.

“The Promised Messiah prayed about Piggott (a Priest of London who had claimed to be God) and saw in a dream some books on which was written three times: Holy, Holy, Holy; and then received a revelation (Arabic): Allah is Severe in retribution. They are not acting righteously. The Promised Messiah explained this as meaning that Piggott was in a bad way and would not repent and would not believe in God. There is also the indication that his claiming to be God is an evil thing and that he will be afflicted with God’s chastisement. It is a very daring thing to claim to be God (Badr Vol. I Nos. 5 and 6, Nov.8 and Dec. 5, 1902 p. 4).” (Tadhkirah 2006 Version – Page 531)

Direct Link: http://www.alislam.org/library/books/Tadhkirah.pdf

Note: This link is for the 2009 version of Tadhkirah

In his own words, Mirza Ghulam Ahmad has stated that J.H. Smyth-Pigott “would not repent and would not believe in God”. The smoke-screen cop out prophecy claim that he repented has no basis and no evidence supporting it. On the other hand, there exists unambiguous evidence that J.H. Smyth-Pigott did not repent and continued acting upon his absurd beliefs till the day he died. The first indication is from his followers who reacted as follows upon his death:

“March 21 (1927) The Rev T.H. Smyth-Pigott has died at the Spaxton Agapemone from influenza, and will be buried in the grounds where the founder, “Brother” Prince, was interred. The inmates refuse to admit the death as they profess to believe that their “Messiah” lives for evermore.” (The Argus – Abode Of Love – Agapemone Leader Dead)

Direct Link: http://ndpbeta.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/3844803

The following is an interview with Kate Barlow, the granddaughter of Pigott, about her book “The Abode of Love”. After After 42 minutes, Kate Barlow says:

It all went downhill once my grandfather died. It was such a shock, I know it sounds ridiculous, but they left the grave open because they thought he’d come back.

Direct Link: http://mpegmedia.abc.net.au/rn/podcast/2010/01/sot_20100103.mp3

(Thanks to Brother Fuad for the above link).

Quite clearly there is no indication of any repentance according to his followers. However, the Ahmadis have a tendency to use the secret repentance within the heart escape clause. This however is refuted by the official Ahmadiyya website itself (the irony) as Mubasher Ahmad writes the following regarding J.H. Smyth-Pigott:

“…the Church of England took stern action against him, and he was defrocked and thus utterly humiliated. But Smyth-Pigott persisted in his arrogance and announced: ‘I am God. It does not matter what they do.’” (Approaching The West – Page 16)

Direct Link: http://www.alislam.org/library/books/Approaching_the_West-20080817MN.pdf

Clearly his response to being defrocked was ‘I am God. It does not matter what they do’. Below is an article from the broadsheet newspaper ‘The Independent’ which verifies that J.H Smyth-Pigott was defrocked in 1909, a year after the death of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad.

“….the Rev John Hugh Smyth-Pigott succeeded him, was defrocked in 1909, but lived on at Agapemone until 1927.” (The Independent – Online)

Direct Link: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/ooh-vicar-our-appetite-for-randy-rectors-1020519.html

And finally, further verification that in 1909 upon being defrocked, this was indeed his reaction:

“The response of the Church of England was to defrock Smyth-Pigott, but his reaction was: ‘I am God. It does not matter what they do’.” (The Abode of Love)

Direct Link: http://www.somersetgateway.com/aboutsom/somermag/may2000/abode.htm

Therefore it has been conclusively proven that J.H. Smyth-Pigott did not repent and continued claiming he was God after the death of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad. The fundamental nature of this prophecy was outliving J.H. Smyth-Pigott in order to prove his truthfulness to the world. Mirza Ghulam Ahmad himself stated that J.H. Smyth-Pigott would be brought to destruction within his lifetime and therefore he would outlive him. Do not forget the words of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad in that should this not happen then he is not the Messiah nor is he from God. The fact remains that J.H. Smyth Pigott outlived Mirza Ghulam Ahmad by an astounding 18 years, 9 months and 24 days and at no point did he repent for his boast. For all the efforts of the Ahmadiyya movement to hide this information, truth remains and falsehood perishes for by its nature, falsehood is bound to perish.

All Praise Is Due To Allah (SWT).

I would like to thank Fuad Al-Attar, Akber Chaudry and Shahid Kamal for exposing this prophecy in the first instance. May Allah (SWT) reward them immensely and grant them Barakah for all their time and efforts in defending Islam.

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65 thoughts on “John Hugh Smyth-Pigott

  1. smyth-pigott was mentioned in a jalsa khutba and apparently a guy was ordered to write a book on this issue by the jama’at. if you search his name on youtube, you get a few ahmadi uploads of his house, the speech where he’s mentioned and the channel of the ahmadi writing the book. i wonder what the book will be try to prove…

    • It’s a damage limitation exercise. There’s nothing they can do except spin – and it’s too late, the cat’s out of the bag.

  2. WOW, ….. what else they need to see the falsehood of Mirza?

    Deafening silence from qadiani defenders!!! Can’t think of a twist ….

    OPEN YOUR EYES, MIRZA HAS DECEIVED YOU AND YOUR GARANDPARENTS, HAVE MERCY ON YOURSELVES AND YOUR FAMILIES, COME OUT OF THIS KUFR…COME TO ISLAM..

  3. The silence on this thread is deafening.

    Brother Tahir, your post cannot be answered. The Ahmadis are busily working on a hasbara response to this, but as usual, it will be nonsense and distraction.

  4. why dont you people print this material an distribute it?
    do you give permission for other people to distribute this?

    • Please feel free to refer people to this article, and feel free to link to it, or to cite it with due accreditation.

    • I second that (just thought I’d say so in case brother Junaid is hoping for some input from the author). So yea, as brother Shahid said… if anyone you distribute it to has any questions, direct them to the blog brother Junaid. Aw and thank you everyone for your kind comments, all praise is due to Allah (SWT).

  5. Masha’Allah..really a masterpiece of research….and a great call for Ahmadis to revisit their position in faith…may Allah guide all.

  6. Please notice how LUTF and his band of brothers have been silent on this topic…Its truly amazing to watch how the followers of this religion just wont accept defeat..

    Also, this shows that MGA was raging out of control, the brits issued an order to MGA to refrain from issuing death threats..yet, MGA continued to issue them…

    This proves that the brits did initially fund MGA, but later they must have moved away from MGA because MGA started raging out of control…

    • The reason that Mirza gave for this death threat was explained in my talk at the Finality of Prophethood conference at Tooting Islamic Centre on Sunday evening. His excuse was that “Piggot was not a man, but a claimant to divinity and the order applied only to men”

      LOL. What a charlatan!

      And how apt the silence of the Mirzais.

      • Bro Shahid when can we see the new speech of ur’s the one u gave at tooting center recently

        ahmadis please think about it

        • I don’t know bro, someone might have made a video, but I didn’t. Next time I will take care of the video arrangements myself insha’Allah.

  7. [admin: The below is a complete lie. Absolutely typical of Mirzais, but we’re surprised that Lutf is no better than many of them. Next time you lie like this, your post will be retained, but not approved]
    Rationalist, The reason for my “silence” is admin made. And I am still waiting for an answer to my question on the “rejectable prophet” post…

    Now that you have claimed to have found another “proof”, allow me to deflate this balloon as well.

    a. The advertisement is entitled as “A WARNING”. Mr. Piggott sent his claims around the world, and after receiving the warning, he never responded.

    b. Please not the words “even in my life time”.. in the beginning of warning. The warning was based on the revelation “innAllaha shadeedul iqaab”.. That God WILL punish piggott… That is a matter decreed.. His death during the life time of Promised Messiah (as) was mentioned as a possibility.. which depended on his acceptance of the challenge in the last paragraph.

    c. Last paragraph states the challenge. To which Piggott did not respond. So He chose to be destroyed “in his own time”.

    d. The proof.. I hear you ask, for my assertions above..
    Malfoozat Volume 2, pages 439-440: Just Weeks after the above mentioned Warning was sent.. Promised Messiah (as) mentioned Dowie and Piggott..
    “As compared to Americans, we are more linked with the Europeans. If he (Piggott) accepts (muqabila karay) and this match/challenge is published then we hope that God will show some sign….”

    Did he?

    c.

    • Mirza challenge was Repentance was from CLAIM not from publishing letters 🙂

      and have you missed this:

      Mirza Ghulam wrote:
      “DEATH OF PIGOTT WILL BE ANOTHER SIGN FROM GOD, IF I DIE BEFORE MR. PIGOTT, I AM NOT TRUE MESSIAH AND NOR I AM FROM GOD “

    • [admin: Neither of the two deleted posts, both on record, but not approved, were on the Piggot thread. If your posts are on-topic and not breaking the rules, they get through. We can count the number of your disapproved posts on the fingers of one hand. Please play fair.]

      Admin: On the “rejectable Prophet” article, I posted twice. The very first entry was mine.. And then in response to two dismissive posts, I responded on Mar 19th.

      It was awaiting “moderation” as always, and then disappeared.

    • Jazak Allah for providing the reference from Malfoozaat. It cleared the whole picture for me. Now someone from the why-ahmadiyya team will Inshallah respond to this baseless allegation against The Promised Messiah (as). Whoever knows Urdu should read the relevant part in Malfoozaat and the whole matter would be cleared to you.

      • Luqman why are u ignoring the statements of MGA’s again

        the pamphlet does not have the condition tat Pigott has to accept the challenge

        its as simple as that

      • So Luqman please read the warning letter carefully again

        In that letter to pigott no where Mirza talks about ACCEPTING THIS CHALLENGE or anything of that sort.

        so please open your eyes and see the truth that Mirza Ghulam’s prophecy failed badly

      • “As compared to Americans, we are more linked with the Europeans. If he (Dowie) accepts (muqabila karay) and this match/challenge is published then we hope that God will show some sign….”

        Nothing to do with Pigott. The quote is for Dowie, as we all know he challenged Dowie to a prayer duel, and at no point did he challenge Pigott. Can you not even see the flaw in your logic? MGA says Pigott WILL be punished, “the death of this God shall, no doubt, be a wonderful thing… May God… show this sign to the world” but then you go on to use a quote issued after this statement which says “…we hope that God will show some sign”? Did he doubt Yalesh? From saying God WILL show this sign to the world to we HOPE God will show this sign. The quote is in reference to Dowie. There is no challenge what so ever issued to Piggot, it is either repent or die within my lifetime. If you want to continue denying this to yourself, feel free to do so. But on the Day of Judgment Luqman, you can not deny that you were informed of the falsehood of MGA. May Allah (SWT) guide Ahmadis to Islam, everyone send praise and blessings on the final Messenger and Prophet of Allah (SWT), Muhammad (SAW).

        • The statement addressing to pigott the pamphlet
          does not have anything related to accepting challenge or anything of that sort.

          it is just giving information rather than asking him to accept any challenge.
          and if it is not mentioned in that was pigot suppose to have dream that he has to accept the challenge? use ur brain ahmadi ppl

          • Good point Brother Zia. You have to show us correspondence between Piggot and MGA as to the ‘challenge’. Otherwise as Brother Zia pointed out, was Pigott meant to have dreamt that he was challenged to something?

    • a. Why it was must to respond?

      b. MGA himself set the standard that “if I die before Pigot I am not true Messiah” did I ask him to give this standards?

      c. Please show every one where is the challenge that pigot has to accept?

      D. This statement of MGA about pigot and dowie in Malfoozat was few weeks before he sent the pamphlet not after it as far as I seen it under the date 22 October 1902

      and the pamphlet is 24th November 1902

      and when Pamphlet was written it didnt say that Pigot has to accept that challenge it just simply gives info that he will die before Mirza Ghulam which didnt happened.

      so why follow the clear falsehood?

  8. What author of above article Tahir Hussain does NOT realize is that the claim of Piggott struck at the religion of Islam. If Piggott’s claim is true it is not like the claim of a Maulvi against Hazrat Mirza sahib being true. If Piggott’s claim is true then Jesus was God who has returned back to the world to make Christianity triumphant.

    Suppose Piggott had died as opponents of HMGA tell us he should have died. Then it would be said by them that Piggott was bound to die because of his false claim, and that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad knowing this (on the basis of Islamic teaching about an imposter) made the prophecy!

    What would opponents HMGA say if Piggott’s few followers claimed that his claim is proved true because the prophecy was not fulfilled?

    Let us consider another question. According to these opponents of HMGA, a false claimant (HMGA) made a prophecy against a false claimant (Piggott). Since the prophecy failed, it means Piggott was less false than HMGA.

    Even the least commonsense shows that Piggott did not take his claim to a serious level. Dowie did pursue his claim seriously.

    • Piggot was a charlatan. He didn’t represent Christians. Mirza was a charlatan. He didn’t represent Muslims. You take Piggot seriously, whereas Muslims just laugh that both were impostors and charlatans, and demonstrably so.

      Seriously, both Lahoris and Qadiani Mirzais appear to be irrational, bordering on the clinically insane. It’s really simple. Mirza said Piggot would die in Mirza’s lifetime. He didn’t. The sneaky will argue (as always) that the “prophecy” would come true only if Piggot didn’t “recant’. But he didn’t. He maintained his belief in godhood.

      Finally, and most tellingly, this booklet has been suppressed by the Ahmadiyya for a century. And the reason it has been suppressed is because it is deeply embarrassing. Mirza is shown to have failed, categorically.

      It’s over for your cult.

  9. This is hilarious. I’ll answer the questions but can I just ask,
    ‘straight talker’, are you not the same person on ahmedi.org accusing me of being a Christian agent? Or are you and Mushtaq Malik not one and the same person? Well you must be, because this comment by ‘Straight Talker’ appeared on ahmadi.org before it passed moderation here. Anyway, typical tactics, resorting to an ad hominem argument, brilliant and persuasive theory I must say!

    First thing, this not just a warning/threat, but a promise which is to be fulfilled UNLESS Pigott repented. It wasn’t a do not say ‘x’ again and
    nothing is to happen. It was, if you continue proclaiming ‘x’, you will die within my lifetime unless you repent. Mirza Ghulam Ahmad clearly says “…if he does not repent of this irreverent claim, he shall be soon annihilated, even in my life-time.” The condition is not accept my challenge, there is no challenge, he has been told to repent or die. This is why he says “…God shall bring the false Messiah to destruction within the life-time of the true one.” Above all is the most important quote that “the death of Mr. Pigott within my life-time shall be another sign of my truth. If I die before Mr. Pigott, I am not the true Messiah nor am I from God.” This didn’t happen, that’s the bottom line.

    Ahmadis, consider the following, Yalesh has told Mirza Ghulam Ahmad
    “we shall obliterate all traces of anything the allusion to which causes
    injury to your honour” (The Will – Page 2). Could you please explain why Yalesh didn’t tell Mirza Ghulam Ahmad to not bother issuing any prophecy if Yalesh knew it was supposedly based on Pigott accepting the ‘challenge’ which he was not going to do? Did Yalesh not know this? If so why not tell Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, do not bother saying to him “you will die within my lifetime” because he is destined to die after you die and issuing such a prophecy will cause injury to your honour even though I (Yalesh) promise to obliterate all traces of anything which causes injury to your honour. Ridiculous. The pamphlet/letter has no challenge, I do not know what it is you’re reading, it is simply a threat to either repent or die (within the lifetime of MGA).

    You say please note the words “even in my life time”? How about you note the words “God shall bring the false Messiah to destruction within the life-time of the true one”? Could that be any clearer? How about “If I die before Mr. Pigott, I am not the true Messiah nor am I from God”?
    Could that be any clearer? How about “…the death of Mr. Pigott within
    my life-time shall be another sign of my truth”? Could he make it any
    clearer? I think not.

    Now, the Malfoozat quote you used, do you want to explain to all the readers why you have inserted (Pigott) and not (Dowie) which you would have done before reading or even knowing of Pigott? The quote you used is for Dowie, as we all know he challenged Dowie to a prayer duel, and at no point did he challenge Pigott. Can you not even see the flaw in your logic? You claim Pigott WILL be punished and even Mirza Ghulam Ahmad says “the death of this God shall, no doubt, be a wonderful thing… May God… show this sign to the world” but then you go on to use a quote issued after this statement that says
    “…we hope that God will show some sign”? Your tactics are laughable. It is clearly in reference to Dowie. That’s Luft done…

    ST. Stop trying to appeal to emotions by stating his statement was
    directed at Islam, does Pigott directly mention Islam at any point? He
    was a false claimant trying to make an easy living (hmm who does that
    remind you of?). This prophecy has nothing to do with Islam full stop.
    One was less fake than the other? Are you serious? Which Muslim have you come across who has said such a thing or even alluded to such a thing? They were BOTH false claimants, how hard is that to understand? According to your logic if a Hindu and Zoroaster priest predict the death of one another by proclaiming the survivor must
    be true, you are implying it must be so or one must be more truthful than the other? What kind of logic is this? Both are false claimants, Pigott and Mirza. How can you throw a hypothetical question like what would Pigotts followers say when he has none? As far as what they would say when they were alive, his claim was destroyed too, straight after Mirza Ghulam Ahmad was proved a charlatan, Pigott then began his downfall, not during the lifetime of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad as you Ahmadis would like to believe.

    And finally, here is yet another newspaper article, this time from 1915
    which contains the prophecy for Pigott.

    Link: http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&cl=search&d=NZTR19150918.2.68&srpos=2&e=

    “A sign of the evidence of God in my favor will appear on the death
    of Mr. Pigott, the arrogant pretender to divinity, who shall be brought
    to destruction within my lifetime…” <— Yalesh, you're having a laugh right?

  10. Tahir killed it!!!!!!! Thats complete destruction!!!!

    Lutf: I will not answer your question in this thread, I will dedicate an article to you on this subject, just give me some time. Why are you always trying to divert us???

    Mushtaq Malik posts here under his alias which is Straight talker, anyhow, tahir disposed of you admirably.

    Thank you Tahir.

  11. [admin: Don’t attack other writers with such stupid claims and stop writing in capitals all the time. It is considered shouting, and is rude. Look at khalid nawaz as an example. Although he has a different belief to that of the admin team, he is at least reasonably courteous and plays by the rules most of the time. Learn from him.]

    @Tahir Hussain:
    JHS-Pigott was Christian. He claimed to be “God”. His claim was meant to show Christianity as Superior religion to Islam. His claim meant to prove Holy Prophet Muhammad (SAWS) to be (nauzubilah) a False prophet. Mirza Ghulam Ahmad of Qadian, whether, you agree with him or not on his claim of Mamur-min-Allah, was DEFENDING Islam, Holy Prophet Muhammad SAWS. He was proving SUPERIORITY of Islam on Christianity. Pigott was NOT any Muslim-Mullah who disagreed with Mirza sahib claim. But the issue was between Christianity and Islam.
    Muslims will support islam and NOT Christianity.
    Where as YOU, Mr. Tahir Hussain are SUPPORTING CHRISTIANITY.
    If you are not a Christian under a DISGUISE of a Muslim, then you sure an AGENT of Christians, or convert to Christianity like syed Siraj-ud-Din Issai, syed Abdullah-Athams etc.

    • How does anything you wrote effect the article above?

      Muslims of India never even heard of Piggot! I have to wonder as to how MGA heard of him…Muslims in India werent busy giving death threats to other people…They were busy planning the tactical advancement of the muslims..even if that meant “pretending” like they were friendly with the brits…whereas MGA was always looking to give out a death threat to anyone who was already in trouble with the local and regional people…for example: Lekh Ram was already in ttrouble with the muslims of India..lekh Ram’s life was in danger before MGA delivered his death threat…MGA giving these guys a death threat is like someone giving Osama Bin Laden a death threat, or saddam hussein..

      Even the US and Pakistan are allies…Do you think that the sincerity of this alliance is sincere? Or is it tactical? Believe it or not, when dealing with politics on a global level, sometimes you have to make friendships with enemies…You should read “art of war”…

  12. @Shahid

    Basically you are supporting Christianity and Pigott, and accepting them to be TRUE as he did not die in life time of a person who was defending islam and recited Kalima-Shahada. regardless you agree with his claim of mamur-min-Allah or not.

    BTW: NO other Mullah-Opponent of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad sahib objected and challenged Pigott???
    Won’t you call them a DISGRACEFUL and SHAMELESS mullah who did not have spine to challenge a person who was proving Rasul Allah SAWS a (nauzubilah) false person???

    • You lack all sense of reason. You exhibit characteristics of insanity.

      Answer my points.

      1) Piggot was a charlatan. The body of Christians didn’t accept him.
      2) Mirza was a charlatan. The body of Muslims didn’t accept him.

      I’ve made it quite clear that both men were charlatans. They were also nobodies with delusions of grandeur. Why should any Muslim scholar waste their time with Piggot? He was deluded! Most Muslims don’t waste their time with the deluded charlatan Mirza either!

      Address the utter failure of the prophecy of Mirza, the dajjal, the kazzab, who didn’t represent Islam any more than Piggot represented Christianity.

    • We arent supporting christianity you underdeveloped humanoid….

      We are just stating facts:

      Mister X told Mister Z that he would die irregardless of circumstances. Mr. Z lived and Mr. X died. In fact, Mr. Z lived an astonishing 15+ years after this Mister X…

  13. Here we go again. Mushtaq Malik, do you think Pigott was some world renowned scholar or something? No one even knew the guy existed! Wait, 99% of Ahmadis probably don’t know he ever existed! What kind of argument is ‘no one else challenged him’? I mean, is this is the best you could come up with?

    The onus is on you to provide information that Pigott made his claim simply to attack Islam. This is something you have cooked up to appeal to the emotions of Muslims, a very dishonest and shameful approach. It will, however, not save the shame of your fraudulent prophet.

    Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, unambiguously, failed to prove his truthfulness based on this prophecy alone. He said Pigott would die before him if he was sent from God and the true Messiah and he didn’t, Mirza Ghulam Ahmad himself died. He said Pigott would repent during his lifetime or else he was false, that didn’t happen and Pigott continued his beliefs till the day he died. He said Pigott would be brought to destruction during his lifetime if he was the true Messiah, this didn’t happen, Pigott was ruined in 1909 onwards, after your ‘prophet’ died. This prophecy failed in every way, shape and form and the best defence you could put up is no one else confronted him? Seriously? You need to really open your mind and heart otherwise why even bother posting useless rebuttals? I don’t mind counter arguments, but please, make them constructive. Accusing me of being a Christian and so on isn’t helping your cause…

    Let me just clear your misapprehension as many followers of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad have a knack of just ignoring what he says. I’ll spell it out for you… your ‘prophet’ said the following of Pigott, “I do not publish any prophecy about the death of a Muhammadan, a Christian or a Hindoo, for Mr. Pigott does not belong to anyone of these religious systems”. So why do you keep going against his words by trying so hard to turn him in to a Christian? (NOTE: Mirza Ghulam Ahmad refers to Muslims as Muhammadans?)

    Now here is something else for you to consider, the words of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad when he says “…our Noah’s Ark will overpower the false one. The Europeans used to say that false Messiahs are about to come, so first these false prophets and Messiahs stepped out in London. After this the voice of the true Messiah will reach London. It is also recorded in the Ahadith that the Anti-Christ will claim Godhead and Prophethood for himself, so this Nation has also fulfilled this manifestly. Dowie is claiming to be a Prophet in America and Pigott is claiming to be God in London and calls himself God.” Malfoozat; Vol.4, 11 November 1902

    Now let’s get this straight? Pigott… is the Anti-Christ? Do I really need to say anymore? You mean the same Dajjal that was meant to be destroyed by the second coming of Isa (AS)? But let me spell it out so there is no confusion… your ‘second coming of Christ’ i.e. Mirza Ghulam Ahmad died BEFORE the Dajjal? I think we will call that game, set and match. Bye 🙂

    That reminds me, read more about Ad-Dajjal here: http://thecult.info/blog/2009/12/27/masih-ad-dajjal-the-anti-christ/

  14. @”rationalist”
    “Lekh Ram was already in ttrouble with the muslims of India..lekh Ram’s life was in danger before MGA delivered his death threat…”

    One should NOT expect honesty from opponents of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad sahib. “rationalist” you proved it again.
    Mirza sahib prophecised, Murder of Lakh-Ram will NOT be found/ caught. And of course despite being killed in broad day light, Lakh Ram murderer NEVER got caught. Police even searched Mirza sahib and his friend maulana Noor Ud Din sahib house.
    So what happened to your FALSE STORY, “Lakh ram was already in trouble with Muslims of India”??? Howcome the other muslim Ghazi Ilumdin (for murdering some other Hindu) got caught but not murder of lakh ram???

    • Mustaq, are you on drugs??? ever heard of wine tonic?? You shouldnt use a computer when intoxicated my friend…get your life together BRO, you’re falling apart

      In other words, “remove head from sphincter then operate your PC”…

    • According to Mirza ghulam Azab on Lekha RAM will be something of which example is nout found (Kharadat)

      Is murder by knife something of which example is not found?

  15. @tahir Hussain:
    “The onus is on you to provide information that Pigott made his claim simply to attack Islam. ”

    You won’t understand, or will NOT like to understand.
    Only HONORABLE MUSLIM will understand this.

    Pigott made calim of being “God”. He made claim of return of REAL JESUS in his person. His mission was to spread Christianity ALL over the world, even on Muslim Countries and people who recite Kalima-Shahada.
    Honest muslims understand mission of Christians i.e. to spread christianity among Muslims and to convert Muslims to christians.

    • What the heck is this guy talking about? He has lost me…

      Piggot had no plans for the muslims of India..

      FYI: there were hardly 1000 muslims in england and the USA combined in that era…

      What about Elijah Muhammad? What about the NOI, they claimed that Master Fard Muhammad was Allah (nauzobillah), but the LAM have been very friendly with these people???

      It seems that the LAM supports organizations that claim that a man is GOD…

      you lose again JOBA

  16. @Tahir hussain

    Mirza sahib used word “muhammadans” for Muslims, because he was addressing Britishers. And in those days, they Britishers knew
    Muslims as “Muhammadans”. In those days Muhammadans=Muslims.

    similarly, Mirza sahib used word “prophet” for himself because if he had NOT used this word, Britishers would NOT have understood the prophecy. And as they had NO understanding of Islamic terminology word “Mujjaddid” (reformer).

    Tahir you are pains to see why Mirza sahib was DEFENDINF superiority of Islam over Christianity.

    • Mirza was defending his own claims of christ-hood. He couldn’t stand for anybody else to be stealing his thunder. They were both losers. They were cursed in the dunya – and I hope they are cursed in the akhirah, but Allahu `Alim.

  17. You failed to address any of my points or the article itself. Instead you reply with the minor points i.e. Muhammadans and your continued assertion that this was a direct attack on Islam. Even Christians did not accept him.

    Question and Answer role play may help:

    1) Did Mirza Ghulam Ahmad say Pigott would die before him (unless Pigott would repent)?

    Yes or No?

    2) Did J.H. Smyth Pigott repent?

    Yes or No?

    3) Did MGA die first or JHSP?

    If you do not answer these questions, which are purely factual, then we need not continue.

  18. @Tahir Hussain
    Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad’s sahib’s challenge to Pigott shows his closeness to and
    love for God. It was because of this, and because of his passion for
    “Tauheed”, that he was outraged that a human being could claim to be
    God. However, YOU (supporter of Christian beliefs—Human could be a God) obviously doesn’t have any love for “Tauheed” because you are unperturbed by a man’s claim to be god, and YOU’re quite content to hold that Pigott suffered no punishment from God.

    In this prophecy Hazrat Mirza sahib merely points to the ancient law
    of God that He destroys those who dare to make themselves God. He
    prophesies that that law will apply in this case. You who uses Muslim name, believes that people can falsely claim to be God with impunity.

    Further, this prophecy shows the selflessness of Hazrat Mirza sahib.
    He is not confronting Pigott because Pigott attacked him but because
    Pigott denigrated the dignity of God. His challenge to Pigott would
    prove that God punishes false claimants to Divinity. That conclusion
    would be in favour of all believers in God, especially Muslims. It is
    not Hazrat Mirza sahib specifically who wins and whose claim is
    established if the prophecy comes true. All believers in God win by
    this prophecy.

    Pigott never again put forward his claim to the public nor invited
    people to accept him as god. His followers amounted to about 100 women
    and a much fewer number of men. Shortly after his claim, Pigott was
    exposed in court as having fathered an illegitimate child through a
    disciple. This public exposure completely undermined his claim. Even
    HMGA critics refers to the “last of his followers”. In time all his
    following vanished.

    The biggest falsehood told by HMGA critics is that Ahmadis are silent
    about this episode. It is fully mentioned in “Mujaddid-i Azam”. It is
    fully mentioned in the Qadiani Jamaat’s “Tarikh-i Ahmadiyyat”. Both
    these works are available online. References to Pigott by Hazrat Mirza
    sahib are in Malfuzat (1986 edition, vols 4 and 5) and can be looked
    up in the index under “Pigott”. That is also online.

    In past HMGA critic’s absurd logic was shown by their assertion that Hazrat Mirza
    sahib was so sure of this prophecy because he had read in newspapers
    that Pigott had once to be protected by the police, and therefore
    Hazrat Mirza thought Pigott was likely to be killed soon! If he could
    be protected by the police once he could be protected again! It may
    make him less likely to be killed!

    This raises the point: why didn’t Hazrat Mirza sahib think he himself
    was likely to be killed soon because he aroused much more opposition
    against himself than Pigott!

    Why was Hazrat Mirza sahib so sure of the prophecy? Simply because he
    believed that God would never allow such a false claimant to prosper!
    That is why he wrote in such strong terms to Pigott, and warned him of
    the maximum punishment that could befall him. The prophecy was given
    in sure language because a warning has to be given clearly as to the
    worst consequences, so that the person warned may take notice and
    might think of changing his ways.

    As to being sure, our Holy Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was also sure that
    he was going to perform the pilgrimage but he was stopped at
    Hudaibiya, and Umar even asked him: “Aren’t you a true prophet of God?
    You told us we would perform the pilgrimage.” What reply did the Holy
    Prophet give, and what does our critic think of it?

    With above important background I come to your Qs:
    1) Did Mirza Ghulam Ahmad say Pigott would die before him (unless Pigott would repent)?

    Yes. But tell us did Pigott ‘Made claim of God’, after HMGA WARNING?
    If you say yes, then it means you are questioning concept of ‘Tauheed’ that we Muslims believe. You are basically saying pigott was truthful, he flourished, his followers increased in numbers. Basically you are questioning Allah SWT.

    2) Did J.H. Smyth Pigott repent?

    Yes. Yes, it is obvious, Pigott repented. Otherwise he would have been destroyed as promised by Allah SWT through prophecy of HMGA.

    3) Did MGA die first or JHSP?
    Yes. Condition for Pigott to die first did NOT fulfill. All prophecies and promises of Allah SWT are conditional. This is the reason that prophet Younas (Christians call him Jonah) nation were spared, even thou Allah SWT had informed prophet Younas that his nation will be destroyed.
    Try to understand, Muslims Allah SWT is NOT like Saddam Hussain of Iraq. Saddam Hussain NEVER showed mercy and forgave after announcing punishment. Where as Allah SWT shows mercy to the last moment.

    • It is no wonder no one takes Ahmadis seriously. His passion for Tahuheed? You really believe it was because of his passion for the ONENESS OF GOD? You mean the same way he claims he is LIKE the unity of Allah (SWT)? You mean the same way he claims he is LIKE the son of Allah (SWT)? You mean the same way he claims he is LIKE the uniqueness of Allah (SWT)? You mean the same way he claims he is LIKE the spirit of Allah (SWT)? He sure does have a passion for the oneness of God doesn’t he? What a ridiculous suggestion, actually it is quite pathetic.

      I just proved to you that Pigott maintained he was God AFTER Mirza Ghulam Ahmad died! This is factual evidence, what planet are you living on? Shortly after his claim he was exposed? He made his claim in 1902 and he was exposed in 1909 after Mirza Ghulam Ahmad died! 7 years is not shortly and yet further vindication of your attempt to save face, it is quite sad and shameful. Stop bringing other opinions in to the article… address the article.

      As far as the typical shameful attack on the Holy Prophet Muhammad (SAW) you have made. Did Allah (SWT) tell the Holy Prophet Muhammad (SAW) that we would go on Hajj? Yes. Did the Holy Prophet Muhammad (SAW) go on Hajj? Yes. Did Mirza Ghulam Ahmad say Pigott would die in his lifetime? Yes. Did Pigott die in the lifetime of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad? NO. Heed the difference.

      Now to the questions.

      YES Pigott did make claim he was God, not only after the ‘warning’ BUT even after Mirza Ghulam Ahmad died! Did you even read the article!? I feel as though you lack intelligence severely, how is the FACT that Pigott claimed he was God, after Mirza Ghulam Ahmads threat and even after his death, mean that I question the oneness of God? Are you for real? It is documented FACT he claimed he was God after your ‘prophet’ died. You just continually prove to me that you are wasting my time. You lack understanding of the most simple concepts.

      Then you claim Pigott repented? He did not repent and that is why he was humiliated and destroyed AFTER the death of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad. What condition was there which you claim was not fulfilled? The ONLY condition was that Pigott must repent and I have shown you proof that in 1909, after your ‘prophet’ died, Pigott was still claiming he was God.

      Mushtaq Malik, either make your response constructive or stop wasting my time. You clearly have not read the article and if you have, you have clearly not understood it. You are BLINDLY trying to defend your ‘prophet’. Like I said, I do not mind answering questions so long as they are constructive, you are denying FACTS which have been provided thus wasting everyones time. At least be genuine in your approach. I have no respect for people that make blind defences for the sake of it. You have a lot of growing up to do. I have yet to come across one Ahmadi that does not behave and debate like a child.

      • For the information of the blog:

        Straighttalker, or Rashid Jhangiri or Mushtaq Malik, whatever alias this clown is using…

        He lives on “planet Lahore”, this planet didnt get enough sunlight..hence its inhabitants dont have the same chromosones as the earthling humanoid…

        Just an FYI!

  19. [admin: Please stop misdirecting. Your questions have been answered, but you have answered none.]

    Question for Tahir Hussain:

    If Pigott had died in life time of Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad sahib, would you have accepted that HMGA warning/ prophecy has been fulfilled, and accepted HMGA truthfulness???? Or you would have ignored it just the way you ignnore death of Lakh- Ram???

    • I would have accepted that the 50-50 ‘prophecy’ was in the favor of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad but I would not have accepted his claim based on this single ‘prophecy’. As I explained if a Christian and a Jew made the same prophecy, does it mean one of the two religions are truthful because the prophecy states that the one who survives is telling the truth? Of course not, that is absurd just as your question is… Your ‘prophet’ continually TESTS his God to see if he will prove in his favor that he is truthful for subconscious reassurance (something that will probably go over your head) and each time his God failed him he would make an excuse or as he says in his own words “God’s word can be reinterpreted”, which was said upon the failure of Maulvi Muhammad Hussain repenting and instead dying.

      My faith is stronger than that and Allah (SWT) has given me the brain thus the capacity to differentiate between truthfulness and falsehood. I would never base my faith on one prophecy. I look at the whole picture. The character of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, his writings, his beliefs, his concepts, his prophecies, his treatment of people, his language, his view on previous Prophet, his humility etc. Only a fool would accept him based solely on a 50-50 prophecy.

    • MGA was throwing around death threats as if they were candy…the laws of statistics tell us that 80% of religious claimers end up dying….

      Unfortunately, MGA screwed up on every “death threat’–what an idiot…he ended up dying himself covered in human DUNG…for lack of a better pronoun…

  20. As I always say brothers, Mirza Ghulam Ahmad lied about his prophesies and claims………….which is clear and beyond doubt!
    But, his followers who call themselves Ahmadi Muslims……….are trying to continue his legacy by covering it up and telling even bigger lies………!
    The problem is that some ordinary Ahmadi’s dont know about this since they have been brainwashed by their so called Murabbis or religious heads who are a bunch of corrupt, cunning, selfish, lunatic, misguided and clever manipulators who run educational classes and write books and organize events to keep them away from real Islam and true Muslims so that their Mirzaionist Dynasty and the Chanda system does not get affected when people find out the truth and start to leave this Cult.

    • I never heard of Piggot before I came to the blog!! As an ahmadi this event in the annals of the ahmadiyya jamaat have been covered up…

  21. This is a quick follow up for Mushtaq Malik who continues claiming on ahmedi.org that I am, as the author of this article, a Christian agent and more importantly that I attack the concept of Tauheed because I uphold that Pigott did not repent.

    In the view of Mushtaq Malik (straight talker), because Pigott is a claimant to Godhood he should have been punished by Allah (SWT) and since (according to MM) this did not happen as Pigott was granted a long life, it means that Pigott must have repented and anyone who believes otherwise is attacking the concept of the oneness of God in addition to attacking the Holy Qu’ran, Allah (SWT) and the Holy Prophet Muhammad (SAW).

    This is a grave accusation against me and all those whom uphold the same opinion (which in truth can not be denied as it is well documented i.e. Pigott continued claiming he was God after Mirza Ghulam Ahmad died) outlined clearly in the article. Of course the only reason this accusation is made against me (and others) is because as brother Shahid often states, they are intellectually bankrupt. An ad hominem argument is all they really resort to…

    Anyway, I’ll get to the point, I came across this yesterday (I wasn’t looking for any writing of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad at all, just surfing the net doing some research, Allah (SWT) does indeed work in mysterious ways).

    “I do not claim that an idol worshipper or an atheist or a claimant of Godhood is not granted long life, because these errors and such misguidance would be punished in the hereafter.” (Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, The Essence of Islam, Volume 2, Page 379)

    All praise is due to Allah (SWT).

  22. [admin: Your last post didn’t make it through because it violated the rules. Go read the rules please. This post also violates the rules as it is misdirection, doesn’t address the subject of the post and it utterly irrelevant, but we’ll allow it to stand on this occasion.]

    Tahir Hussain
    MY last post (copy posted on ahmedi org) don’t get posted here. I’m not sure about this post either. Anyways:
    Holy Quran say’s, anyone who makes false claims of association with Allah SWT, his juglar is cut. (He is murdered prematurely).
    Holy Prophet Muhammad SAWS LIVED for 23 years after making claim of ‘mamur-min-Allah’ (messanger 0f Allah SWT).
    Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad made claim of Mujjaddid in 1882 and died in 1908 (he lived for more than 23 years i.e. 26 years and died a natural death)
    Mirza Mahmud Ahmad made FALSE claim of ‘musleh-mahud’ in 1944, and he died in 1965 (he lived less than 23 years i.e. 21 years and he died as result of attack on his jugular (ref Sir Zafaullah Khan book: Ahmadiyya a renisance of Islam).
    Pigott REPENTED. otherwise he would have died in less than 23 years.

    Provide online link to your quote to HMGA book. I want to read quote in context.
    Opponents of HMGA, ALWAYS post out of context and many times do WRONG translation and omission of HMGA statements.

  23. @Tahir Hussain:
    “I do not claim that an idol worshipper or an atheist or a claimant of Godhood is not granted long life, because these errors and such misguidance would be punished in the hereafter.” (Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, The Essence of Islam, Volume 2, Page 379)

    I have posted link (if it gets through moderation). Please tell me where is the quote you provided.

    Essence of Islam
    http://aaiil.org/text/books/mga/essenceislam/essenceislam.pdf

  24. MM, I gave you the source. You clearly know ‘The Essence of Islam Volume 2’ will be on the alislam website and not the Lahori site, even if you don’t agree with them, why not go and check the source yourself instead wasting time by posting and asking for it here?

    “I do not claim that an idol worshipper or an atheist or a claimant of Godhood is not granted long life, because these errors and such misguidance would be punished in the hereafter. But I do affirm
    that he who falsely poses as the recipient of Divine revelation is soon seized and his life is cut short. The Torah, the Gospel and the Holy Qur’an bear witness to this and so does reason. An opponent cannot set forth a single instance to the contrary from history.”
    [Ayyam-us-Sulh, Ruhani Khaza’in, vol. 14, pp. 267-268]

    http://www.alislam.org/books/essence2/Essence-2.pdf

    Go and refer to the original source. Ayyam-us-Sulh, Ruhani Khaza’in, vol. 14, pp. 267-268. Pigott was a claimant to GODHOOD.

    P.S. the verse of the Holy Qu’ran (69:44) is specific to the Holy Prophet Muhammad (SAW).

    Tafsir Ibn Abbas (69:44-47)
    And if he had invented) and had Muhammad (pbuh) invented (false sayings concerning Us) lies against Us and attributed to Us that which We did not say, (We assuredly had taken him) We assuredly had taken revenge against him (by the right hand) by means of truth and proofs; it is also said this means: We assuredly had vehemently taken him. (And then severed his life artery) the life artery of Muhammad (pbuh) (And not one of you could have held Us off from him) He says: no one of you could have held Us back from Muhammad (pbuh).

    Tafsir al-Jalalayn (69:44-47)
    And had he, namely, the Prophet (s), fabricated any lies against Us, by communicating from Us that which We have not said, We would have assuredly seized him, We would have exacted vengeance [against him], as punishment, by the Right Hand, by [Our] strength and power; then We would have assuredly severed his life-artery, the aorta of the heart, a vein that connects with it, and which if severed results in that person’s death, and not one of you (ahadin is the subject of mā, min being extra, used to emphasise the negation; minkum is a circumstantial qualifier referring to ahadin) could have defended him (hājizīna is the predicate of [the preceding] mā, and it is used in the plural because ahad, when employed in a negatory context, denotes a plural sense; the [suffixed] pronoun in ‘anhu refers to the Prophet), in other words, there is none to prevent Us from punishing him.

    Tafsir Ibn Kathir (69:44-46)
    (And if he had forged a false saying concerning Us,) meaning, `if Muhammad forged something against Us, as they claim, and added or removed anything from the Message, or said anything from himself while attributing it to Us, then We would surely be swift in punishing him. And of course, Muhammad did not do any of this (as the disbelievers claimed).’ Thus, Allah says, (We surely would have seized him by his right hand,) It has been said that this means, `We would seize him by the right hand because it is more stronger in grabbing.’

    If you disagree explain previous false prophets who did not have the the aorta of the heart severed? And I will quote brother Rationalist:

    “”1. Why was John the Baptist’s (yahya) head chopped off…

    2. When Muhammad was thought to be killed in Uhud, allah revealed to the muslims…”other messengers have died”

    3. In the Quran it is mentioned many times, “why did you try to kill my messengers”

    “That is because they would reject the Signs of Allah and kill the Prophets unjustly. That is because they rebelled and used to transgress.” 3, 112″”

  25. @Tahir Hussain

    I demand from you to provide link to HMGA book from wher you give “his” quote.

    I have seen it time and again, opponents of HMGA, accuse some statement is made by him. Which in fact are quote of his opponent. HMGA in fact refers to some quote of his opponent and answers it. So just by saying that such and such quote is from HMGA is NOT correct.

    Since 1914, Qadianis in order to justify stupid claims of Qadiani Khalifa 2 Mirza mahmud Ahmad create absolute false statements and allege them to HMGA. And then opponents of HMGA use the same false statements of Qadianis and accuse HMGA of making them. This is the reason, i say: Qadianis and opponents of HMGA are *bed-fellows*. They both help each other.

    When Jews on ‘jihadwatch dot com’ make false accusation on Rasul Allah SAWS, or Muslim terroprist attribute some statement to Rasul Allah SAWS that does NOT mean that Rasul Allah SAWS made that statement.

    Tahir Hussain, you accused HMGA of making some statement, so it is your responsibility to show us where he said that. You answer us now, and you will be answer able to Allah SWT.

    • For Mushtaq Malik the ape:

      I have never seen any quote by any anti-ahmadiyya website that is incorrect. I have seen the LAM and the qadianis quote out of context by the way…

      In fact, your entire religion bases its foundation on out of context quoting, here are some examples;

      1. Dar-e-qutni
      2. Kanzul-ummul (the age of Esa (as))
      3. The hadith about the Quranic verse “amongst the others…”
      4. 4:69, the interpretation of…

      How dare you accuse us of over-contextualization!! Your DADDY (mga) invented the idea…

      Why should we answer any of your questions when you never answer any of ours…

      Planet Lahore doesnt have the oxygen necessary to develop a capable brain…

    • You never commented as to why Yahya (as) was brutally assasinated…

      Pray to your daddy and ask him for advice…not even Zahid Aziz, who is your mickey mouse scholar has the courage to tackle this issue…

    • Is this a joke? I mean seriously? You don’t accept any source except one that comes from your website? What a pathetic childish attitude you have. I have given you an authentic source with full reference and even the direct link to verified writings of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad and yet you’re crying “it is your responsibility to show us where he said that.” Is this the shining intelligence of LAM which you often boast about?

      Your master MGA himself says: “It has been established that the bounty of converse with God and of disclosure of the unseen has been bestowed on me to a degree to which it has not been bestowed on anyone during the last thirteen hundred years. Should anyone challenge this, the onus of proof lies with him.” (Essence of Islam, Volume 3, Page 148)

      Well guess what? You are challenging the validity of the quote thus the ONUS OF PROOF lies with you to prove that it is unauthentic. Stop changing the topic at every given opportunity and learn how to debate. You have been given numerous reports verifying that Pigott claimed he was God after MGA died, this is a matter of FACT. Then you try your escape by claiming he must have repented otherwise, implying, the Holy Qu’ran is wrong (naudubillah). This is exposed as the verse you try and justify your nonsense with is known to refer to the Holy Prophet Muhammad (SAW) and only the Holy Prophet Muhammad (SAW). Then your own master, MGA, says a claimant to Godhood need not be punished in this life as he will be punished in the next. Now you try escaping by questioning the authenticity of the quote even though you have been given a full reference and a direct link to the book itself. So what do you resort to? A conspiracy by the Ahmadiyya to ‘make up’ writings? What a convincing argument Mushtaq, you truly sound like a nut case.

      You are a shallow individual who has labeled everyone who believes Pigott did not repent as non-Muslims and ‘bastard progeny’. You seem to be following the tradition of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad without any difficulty. You are a great example of his influence.

      • Shahid should build a disclaimer on this site that refers to all writings of Mushtaq Malik…this disclaimer should refer to that “mushtaq” is a special needs patient and should be dealt with accordingly…

        I would be willing to donate money to find a cure for this guy.

  26. It seems that Mushtaq Malik purposely just doesnt answer questions, which is not a surprising developments in the dialogue between ahmadis and muslims.

    I had done just some basic research and realized that Yahya (as) was brutally assasinated, upon reading this I realized that MGA’s idea that a true claimant has to lvie 23 years is totally bogus. After further research I realized that other prophets were also brutally murdered, prophets dying torturous deaths is not a new development..

    And why are you bringing up the issue of Mirza Mahmud? Why do you always divert? the LAM is just laaaaaame, you guys even tried your hand at khalifat…THE LAM had 3 khalifas in 1914 after the split, they were Kamalludin, ghulam hasan khan and one 0ther guy…i guess it didnt work out, so they quit…ghulam hasan khan didnt accept the khilafat of noorudin and later defected to the qadianis

    Did you not read the clear statements of the piggot even after 1909??

  27. [admin: This is your last approved post. Straight Talker, the mouthpiece of the Lahoris, is banned.]

    Tahir Hussain:

    I said it before. i say it again.
    Qadianis and opponents of HMGA (hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad) concoct false statements. Both bed-fellows provide pleasure to each other. They both are in-love.
    E.g. Qadianis have concocted false phrase ‘Ummati-Nabi’ and allege it to HMGA. And their lovers i.e. Mulla oppoensts of HMGA accuse HMGA of making that claim.

    Therefore, you must provide reference to HMGA quote on Lahore Ahmadiyya Movement website.

  28. Pingback: The Lost English Books of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani | Ahmadiyya

  29. The Holy Quran is our standard and we should seek guidance from this Holy Book. Regarding the truthfulness of a Prophet it says:
    “And a believing man from among the people of Pharaoh, who concealed his faith, said, “Will you slay a man because he says, ‘My Lord is Allah,’ while he has brought you clear proofs from your Lord? And if he be a liar, on him will be the sin of his lie; but if he is truthful, then some of that which he threatens you with will surely befall you. Certainly Allah guides not one who is a transgressor, and a liar.” [Al-M`umin 40;29]
    This verse of the Holy Quran tells us two things:
    (1) If Mirza GHulam Ahmad (Peace be upon him) were not a true prophet, he would have been destroyed along with his mission. Alhamdolillah, Ahmadiyya Muslim Community is not only present but progressing enraging our opponents.
    (2) It is not necessary for a true prophet that “all” of his warnings come true. The above quoted verse says “some of that which he threatens you with will surely befall you”. If all warnings had to befall upon opponents, then why did not Allah use the word “all” and why “some”?
    However, the most important fact to be kept in view that Pigott’s cult is no more. Nobody knows about him but a few. Our opponents know him with reference to Ahmadiyyat as Abu-Jahl is remembered with reference to Islam.
    Our opponents have literally forsaken the Holy Quran and wish to destroy Ahmadiyyat through their frustrated lies, rage and fury. Keep on burning your chests. Allah does not stop you but ask you to keep on doing your work; we are doing our work. Time has proved and is proving upon whom the everlasting punishment is going to stay.
    “And O my people, act as best you can, I too am acting. You will soon know on whom lights a punishment that will disgrace him, and who it is that is a liar. And wait; surely, I wait with you.” [Hud 11:94]

    • Ansar Raza, most of your message is irrelevant and off topic. You finish with with a series of quite pitiful ad-hominem nonsense that is so typical of your cult. It suits you to talk emotionally about your victim status, but it doesn’t fool anyone, but those who wish to be fooled. Let’s deal in facts.

      The facts, which you wilfully ignored in your standard hasbara diatribe are as follows:
      1) Mirza’s prophecies on Smyth-Piggott have been proven false
      2) Your cult concealed the Smyth-Piggott booklet, hoping it would never be found, because it didn’t support your fraudulent cult or the claims of your impostor prophet. We found the booklet and we revealed your prophet’s writing to the world for all to see what a liar he was. When you can accept these indisputable facts, you will leave Mirzology and insha’Allah, rejoin Islam. We will welcome you warmly.

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