Open Letter – Part 2 – Seismology and Epidemiology

Mirza Ghulam Ahmad had never mentioned anything about earthquakes until the first week of April 1905.  Even the great Assam earthquake of 1897 (magnitude 8.1) , when the Mirza Sahib was at the peak of his polemic, did not garner much from his attention span as the tremors had not reached any of his followers or reached the Punjab.  The Assam earthquake was in June of that year, while the Mirza Sahib was busy demeaning Hussain Kami, ambassador of Sultan Abdul Hameed II, the Ottoman Khalifa, and busy with Queen Victoria’s jubilee celebrations later that month, and hinting that he, the Mirza Sahib, should be the successor to the Ottoman Caliphate.

Fast forward to 1905, three years before his death.  On the 4th of April, 1905, an earthquake struck Kangra and Dharamsala, and whose tremors were felt in Qadian as well.  However, the Mirza Sahib was oblivious to it, and it was not until TWO days later, when the news became public, that he started having revelations about this great missed opportunity for prophecy.  And prophecy he did, over and over, until he was blue in the face, about many more earthquakes in the days to come but Nature just smiled and nothing happened in his lifetime.

Much before that, he had claimed ownership to the plague in a very similar way, relating an old dream about dark-green plants to the plague, but after-the-fact as most self-declared prophets do.  And he foretold of many many other plagues, and much worse than the one that had just gone by, none of which came to pass.  Alas, his Yalash had not told him about the progress in science, hygiene and antiseptics and antibiotics, and the plague became a thing of the past. (Sometimes, I am amazed at how cruel Nature was to the Mirza:  even when there was a 50/50 chance for some prophecy of his, Nature betrayed the poor fellow.)

Thus, dear friends and family, your cult of misery was born: from the misery of others.  The way you gesticulate and are over-joyed by death and destruction is beyond human comprehension.  It is simply sick — and sickening to rational human beings.

Earthquakes happen in areas that lie on geological fault lines, and scientists can now measure the stress levels and predict relatively accurately about the probability of an event.  On the other hand, engineers have designed buildings in a way that damage to life and limb is minimal: two of the strongest earthquakes ever recorded —  the great Chilean earthquakes of 1960 and 2010 — were not as devastating to human life as the great Lisbon earthquake of 1755.  A comparison of Haiti and Chile in 2010 tell the story of good engineering and following of building codes.  The difference between Quetta and Kashmir also tell the same story.

So great are the developments in seismology that recently seismologists have downgraded the Mirza’s 1905 Kangra  earthquake.  The same Mirza Sahib prophesied that his followers will continue to excel in knowledge.  So, why can’t a bunch of Ahmadis get together and show unusual or inexplicable seismic activity at that time, or since?  Oh, wait a minute — that might prove that it was all hot air?  Is that the reason why you do not specialize in epidemiology or seismology, so that you can continue to shudder and smile at the ‘prophecy’?

Earthquakes and the plague are a sign of your cult and give you great satisfaction (I will not use the word ‘pleasure’ or its connotations).  Populations have increased and earthquakes will continue to happen in Indonesia, Japan, around the Himalayas and in Chile, among many other areas.  Do you not see how absurd and inhuman that is?  Do you want to relegate your offspring to this superstitious darkness whereas the world is becoming a better place day by day?  When will you awaken?

(More on the Ahmadiyya Quixotic forays into ‘knowledge’, literature and science . . . in part 3)

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59 thoughts on “Open Letter – Part 2 – Seismology and Epidemiology

  1. @AkberC

    “Earthquakes and the plague are a sign of your cult and give you great satisfaction (I will not use the word ‘pleasure’ or its connotations). Populations have increased and earthquakes will continue to happen in Indonesia, Japan, around the Himalayas and in Chile, among many other areas.”

    Such signs have been shown for each and every prophet, and used by God himself. The Holy Quran quotes instances after instances of such signs appearing in various ages in favor of various prophets and people. If God Almighty himself has verified the truth in and of such signs, and still you want to stand against it, that is your business…

    If I was to follow your logic, when God shows great earthquakes in favor of his prophets, I guess He forgets that it isn’t really his doing after all and It is really the seismology and geology (that apparently have no connection to God in your world.)

    I would suggest that you not stand against God’s decrees for various people at various times. However He pleases to bring it about, so he does…

    The position you have proposed here really borders with the idea of atheism.

  2. When I was growing up I was always told that MGA predicted the earthquake in SF in 1906. Im not sure if MGA ever mentioned this earthquake or not. I think it was maybe his followers who attributed this to him….

    These are some prelimanry ideas by me….

    • rationlist , earthquake of SF came just few days after hazrat Messiah Maood (as) received the revelation from GOD about the Earthquake .
      shall provide u the reference .

      • When did ahmadiyya literature acknowledge this earthquake?

        When was it written that MGA predicted this earthquake?

        Did this appear in the review of religions in 1906? The ROR are online through the LAM!!!

        • on 8th april 1906 god told Promised Messiah

          : 1). Lord, show me the
          earthquake of the Judgment Day. 2). Allah will show you the
          earthquake of the Judgment Day.
          747
          This does not mean that the Judgment Day will arrive but it
          will be a great calamity and there will be great loss of life (Al-
          Hakam, Vol. X, No. 12, April 10, 1906, p. 1).

          on 14th april the revelation of the GOD was

          I saw in my dream that plague was on the increase
          and then received the revelation (Urdu): Earthquake has come,
          earthquake has come.
          749
          Then in my dream I felt that there was an earthquake and
          then the revelation came (Arabic): We have sent to you a
          Messenger as a witness against you as We had sent a Messenger
          to Pharaoh (Al-Hakam, Vol. X, No. 13, April 17, 1906, p. 1).

          please note this was published on April 17 1906
          the next day there came earthquake in San Fransisco

          a conincidence for you . am i right ?
          but wait , i have heard such a REASONING before .
          hmm where i read it and who said it ……

          yeha got it , it was a person just like you . who denied his prophet . when GOD punished them u know what they said

          ] وَمَاۤ اَرْسَلْنَا فِىْ قَرْيَةٍ مِّنْ نَّبِىٍّ اِلَّاۤ اَخَذْنَاۤ اَهْلَهَا بِالْبَاْسَآءِ وَالضَّرَّآءِ لَعَلَّهُمْ يَضَّرَّعُوْنَ‏
          [7:95] وَمَآ أَرۡسَلۡنَا فِى قَرۡيَةٍ۬ مِّن نَّبِىٍّ إِلَّآ أَخَذۡنَآ أَهۡلَهَا بِٱلۡبَأۡسَآءِ وَٱلضَّرَّآءِ لَعَلَّهُمۡ يَضَّرَّعُونَ
          [7:95] And never did We send a Prophet to any town but We seized the people thereof with adversity and suffering, that they might become humble.

          [7:96] ثُمَّ بَدَّلْـنَا مَكَانَ السَّيِّئَةِ الْحَسَنَةَ حَتّٰى عَفَوْا وَّقَالُوْا قَدْ مَسَّ اٰبَآءَنَا الضَّرَّآءُ وَالسَّرَّآءُ فَاَخَذْنٰهُمْ بَغْتَةً وَّهُمْ لَا يَشْعُرُوْنَ‏
          Then We changed their evil condition into good until they grew in affluence and number and said, ‘Suffering and happiness betided our fathers also.’ Then We seized them suddenly, while they perceived not

          So , u were punished via the plague , severely. then u were punshed with earthquakes , that too severely.
          then there came the World War 1 , a foretold war , and the whole world was punished , that too sevelrly

          and these Days GOD is sending his curses every second day,

          suffering is there , and is every where .
          yet people are doing ,what humans have done in past with their Prophets.

          “Suffering and happiness betided our fathers also.’”[7:96]
          but fear that day when this part will fulfill on you as well
          ” Then We seized them suddenly, while they perceived not”

          No one , on the face of the earth have the ability to withhold this destruction . It will surely come and it will destroy the whole world . yeah the Third world war , the atomic war

          • Khalid

            mirza Ghulam said Earth Quake will gona come in his life time but it didnt

            It was suppose to be in same country but it was not

            It was suppose to a sign for him again it was not

            He said if it wont gona come in my life time then I am not from GOD and it didnt

    • Farhan , how can u say this , after all in your recent video u talked about cause and effect theory
      So why this Sigh…?

  3. Akbar sahib, do not hide the facts.

    The revelation about Kangra earthquake was published in Al-Hakm, 24 Mar 1905, Page 9.

    • Earthquakes have happened before, they will happen again. Predicting in earthquake is like predicting rain…

      Do u get it??

      Now if MGA had given an exact date, that would have been impressive…

      • What an amazing coincidence then.. temporary dwellings and permanent dwellings (the cantonment and the city) were devestated by an earthquake within a month of the prophecy.

        • Yeah, you and your prophet love it when people are destroyed, good or bad. You revel in every misfortune to humanity as a sign of your doom-mongering Satan-worshipper. Love for all indeed! Disgusting death cult!

        • MGA did not predict the Tunguska meteorite that hit russia! This was shorlty after MGA died in June 1908.

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tunguska_event

          If MGA would have predicted this in exact terms–that would have been impressive! To predict earthquakes is quite easy. I think Japan has a minor earthquake everyday.

          When India smashed into Asia and created the himalayan mountains was that a punishment for some people? I think not!! When South america and north america split away from africa and europe was that divine punishment? I think not!

          Earthquakes are a sign of a healthy planet!!1 The crust is alive, thats why it moves. If earthquakes stopped happening, that would be a cause for concern.

          Most ahmadis are computer specialist, they dont study philosophy or anthropology or plate tectonics.

          Ever heard of the Marianas trench??
          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marianas_trench

          Mars and Venus dont have seismic activity. Earthquakes are a phenomenon that is only found on one planet in the entire known universe. We should embrace this recycling of crust.

          The earth has a beautiful system of crust recycling, this is not a punishement from allah, this is a grace/bounty of allah. Allah has created a system of recycling.

          Some even say that it was the earthquakes that ended the ICE AGE!!! Ahmadis are computer engineers not thinkers!!

          DUMB DUMbS

          • http://www.alislam.org/library/links/00000032.html

            Has the ahmadiyya view point on this matter…..

            “And if Allah were to punish men for their wrongdoing. He would not leave therein a living creature, but He gives them respite till an appointed term, and when their term is come, they cannot remain behind a single hour, nor can they go ahead of it. (16:62) “

          • Lutf: i read the diatribe by mirza tahir ahmad, it was grand…I’ll tell ya..

            An amazing idea just dawned on me, ahmadis believe that Allah controls the laws of nature on a daily basis, ahamdis believe that Allah CAN interfere where needed.

            But when it comes to the physical NUZUL of jesus, ahmadis write that this is ridiculous. This again shows the inconsistency of ahmadiyya thought.

          • @ lutf’s post:

            ^ I feel like I just read “Cat in the Hat” or the story of “donald duck”. Thanks for the entertainment!

          • yes , why Sans Fransisco was punished? it should not have been , after all the people were so pious , so loving , so GOD fearing so why GOD punished them .

            but if they were not the pious and god fearing then they all deserved the punishment .
            In fact no one on the face of the earth can say that he is so pious that GOD will not punish him.
            and here lies the answer Rationlist ,

            when the prophets come , GOD start giving punishment to those who deserve it in this world .

            any answer rationalist ? or my eyes will again search for ur answer ?

          • Sick people. Your Mirza didn’t even speak to the San Franciscans. So your shameful cult is just hateful and bogus, revelling in the deaths of people who didn’t even know they were Mirza’s opponents. How can anyone believe your warped hate-speech?

  4. @rationalist

    I said earlier:
    “Such signs have been shown for each and every prophet, and used by God himself. The Holy Quran quotes instances after instances of such signs”

    You say:
    “Earthquakes have happened before, they will happen again. Predicting in earthquake is like predicting rain…”

    So, according to your view, God must have been faking it… all throughout the ages…

    And, that is what atheists say….

    I think your brain is totally fried with information overload…

    • Rationalist said: “Earthquakes have happened before, they will happen again. Predicting in earthquake is like predicting rain…”
      You said: “So, according to your view, God must have been faking it… all throughout the ages…
      And, that is what atheists say….”

      How on earth did you get from Rationalist’s statement to your quite insane inference?

      Mirzology ill-logic is a wonder to behold.

    • Allah has created a beautiful planet for us to live on. Allah controls everything and he has the right to do as he wishes!!

      Earthquakes are a means of recycling crust.

      Ever heard of the mid-atlantic ridge??
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mid_atlantic_ridge

      Watch how this ridge seperated the continents!! Then tell yourself that is divine punishment?? See if it works! Humans werent even around when the most severest earthqaukes happened…Ever heard of Pangaea, I dont think they teach these concepts in rabwah!!

      What is allah faking?? I dont understand that statement.

      In the atlantic ocean new crust is forming at the rate that a fingernail grows, in the pacific ocean the old crust is getting folded underneath the crust. —This is how the earth recycles!

      Computer engineers write CODE all day, they are the ones whose brains resemble swiss cheese!

      • @rationalist

        You asked:
        “What is allah faking?? I dont understand that statement.”

        I had referred to it in my very first reply – that if I was to follow your logic that means:

        “He [Allah] forgets that it isn’t really his doing after all and It is really the seismology and geology (that apparently have no connection to God in your world.)”

        Since you say that any earthquake has happened just because they happen, so [according to your logic] for God to pretend to have done somethings as signs for his prophets [i.e. caused earthquakes, volcanoes, floods, famines, and other disasters,] that He really did not intend to do but took credit for it in the Holy Quran or in other scriptures- [while the actual events took place only because of some BLIND seismology and geology reasons existing independently] is referred to as ‘faking it.’ Comprende?.

        And, that is the atheistic connection…

        • Nonsense. The point is crystal clear. Everything is the Will of Allah (SWT), but the Will of Allah (SWT) is not always to destroy humans with earthquakes – they occurred before mankind occupied the planet after all, as Rationalist so clearly states. And His Will was certainly not subordinate to the will of the Liar of Qadian, who couldn’t prophesy his way out of a paper bag.

          • [Note from admin: Irrelevant. Feel free to reproduce your posts anywhere else if you feel the moderation here is unduly harsh. Shame there isn’t an “alislam.org” forum where Muslims are allowed to talk as freely as you are here]

        • My personal opinion is that Allah has pre-ordained some earthquakes. In other words, Allah already knew where and when the crust would move, he invented the earth, he knows when it is moving. These pre-ordainments coincided with some of the prophets missions.

          The idea that Allah punishes with earthquakes is hard to comprehend. I dont think that Allah spends his time deciding where and when to send an earthquake, I dont think that a supreme being does such things.

          Allah invented plate tectonics, hence he knows when the crust is shifting. Cause and effect tells us that if Allah intervened and changed the process of crust-movement–this would have long terms effects on the entire system.

          Thus, I conclude that the earthquakes that are mentioned in the Quran were known to Allah before he invented the earth. Allah mentioned violent earthquakes close to Day of Judgement as well. Has anybody seen the movie 2012???

          Again, who did allah punish when India slammed into Asia?? Why did Allah send an earthquake when Yazid had Husayn killed? Didnt yazid deserve divine punishment for smiting the head of the grandson of Muhammad? Who else deserved divine punishment more than Yazid? Yazid even toyed with the head of Husayn, he picked at it…thats hard to even write for me..

          99.9% of earthquakes are a process of recycling that keeps the earth alive.

          • @rationalist

            Punishment is your word..
            I would prefer ‘sign’ over ‘punishment’ and Quran concurs…
            Because, although, same sign can be punishment for the deserving, sign for the others and nothing nothing for those who do not believe in signs of God. I wonder where you fall in this list…

          • what is the meaning of this ayyat Shahid sahib

            42 Before thee We sent (apostles) to many nations, and We afflicted the nations with suffering and adversity, that they might learn humility.

            al annam .

  5. @Shahid:
    You said:
    “How on earth did you get from Rationalist’s statement to your quite insane inference?”

    I say:
    Very easy, just Google what the popular atheists say about divine predictions in any any of the Holy scriptures, and you will find an ‘almost’ exact match with @Rationalists belief.

    But for those those with belief in God and some commonsense, there is no need to search Google. They know Quran has used such events as divine signs repeatedly to prove the truth of his prophets. Just look up the repeated references to earthquakes, volcanoes, floods, famines, and other disasters in the Holy Quran.

    The God I know is a living God, He speaks even today….

  6. As per ahmadiyya theology, in terms of earthquakes, Las Vegas should have destroyed by now!!!!! This is sin city, yet allah has allowed it to survive???

    In ahmadiyya theology allah is sitting around with nothing to do but punish men and women for their crimes. Why hasnt allah destroyed arabia?? Havent the arabs totally denied MGA?? Arent ahmadis dis-allowed from even entering mecca???

    Cmon guys! Come with something better…

    Allah punished some people with earthquakes, that is true, but your theology also states that some laws are temporary (see the jihad theory), could this be another temporary thing that allah did? Why didnt allah send an earthquake to Taif after what they did to Muhammad (saw)???

    You guys should think things about a little bit better before presenting them to the intelligentsia!

    • Further, how many earthquakes were sent for Rasulullah (saw)? He was sent as a mercy to all creatures, and taught us “no compulsion in religion”. And here is Mirza praying for plague to kill his opponents. What drivel! This is Ahmadiyya’s way. Praying for destruction. Muslims pray for the salvation of others and work towards it. How many Muslims have the Mirzais converted to their cult in a hundred years apart from the original Punjabis in Qadian and those wanting to get into the West using the preferential asylum laws for Ahmadis? The number is negligible.

      • it is strange Mr shahid ,

        hazrat Muhammad (saw) was sent for the mercy, yet he (saw) have to fought with the non belivers and have to kill them
        is not it against the Mercy ?
        absolutely not , GOD is much more merciful then hazrat Muhammad (saw) but he also punish those who do not follow his path in this world and in the lief after world as well .

        so ur allegation on the promised Messiah is baseless and show that u do not even know the ABC of QURAN which says clearly

        42 Before thee We sent (apostles) to many nations, and We afflicted the nations with suffering and adversity, that they might learn humility.
        43 When the suffering reached them from us, why then did they not learn humility? On the contrary their hearts became hardened, and Satan made their (sinful) acts seem alluring to them.
        44 But when they forgot the warning they had received, We opened to them the gates of all (good) things, until, in the midst of their enjoyment of Our gifts, on a sudden, We called them to account, when lo! they were plunged in despair!

        al anam

        now allege all those prophet as well , if u can dare to do so

        also what hazrat Essa (as) are supposed to do after he comes down from sky

        he will kill the people with his breath

        am i not right ?
        be prepared to reject them as well
        are u with me ?

  7. @ khalid

    Some verses that are in the Quran are open to interpretation. Honestly, I dont know exactly what this verse means. It appears that Allah sent some signs, we dont know the context here…

    MGA tried to explain what this means…he failed terrible in the light of new research in terms of plate tectonics. If plate tectonics would have existed in that timeframe I am sure that MGA would have shyed away from this entire topic.

    You see, ahmadiyyat was invented in the late 20th century, ahmadiyya thought is based on the science of that period. Plate tectonics didnt exist as a science in that era. Muhammad Ali went on (after 1914) to explain almost every miraculous event scientifically. I had actually read a book that highlighted every attempt b muhammad ali to explain away allah’s miraculous signs.

    Most humans of the world had no idea what caused earthquakes(circa 1950, at least). Now, did MGA try to explain why asteroids hit the earth or the moon for that fact. There are no humans on the moon yet the moon has over 1000 craters from asteroid impact. No to mention other planets that have buried by asteroid impact!!

    Scientist have speculated that the dinosaurs were made to be extinct because of an asteroid collission in mexico, the Yucatan peninsula to be exact.

    In conclusion, we dont know what the exact context and nature of the signs that allah sent which are mentioned in the Quran. We do know that earthquakes coincide with plate tectonics, we also know that natural disasters occur when and where humans have NEVER lived.

    On jupiter there is a storm that has existed for 100000 of years, have you ever looked at that planet?? It resembles an eye, like an orange eye.

    Ahmadis are “computer geeks” and medical people, not thinkers, astronomers or anthroplogists!!!

    • i wonder on teh way u put ur point. u attributed the earthquake to tectonic plate movement but u fail to understand whatever GOD do , it do by using the law of the nature.

      Do not u know the flood of the hazrat Noah (as) , every year hundred thousands people suffer by the Floods but why the Flood of the hazrat Noah (as) was a punishment and Flood of today is not considered a punishment .

      Just because there was the explicit prophecy of a Prophet regarding the Flood .

      the same laws which bring hurricane and other disasters were used by the GOD to cause the Flood in Noah (as) .
      But one is considered as the sign and the other just the law of the nature.

      Perhaps the Power full answer lies in this ayyat which totally obliterate ur theory and proves that how low level mentality is displayed in this site against the Ahmadiyyat.

      (1) So We sent on them: the flood, the locusts, the lice, the frogs, and the blood (as a succession of) manifest signs, yet they remained arrogant, and they were of those people who were Mujrimun (criminals, polytheists, sinners).
      ( سورة الأعراف , Al-Araf, Chapter #7, Verse #133)

      @Rationalist
      flood was a sing , but flood come due to heavy rains , so ur logic that as Hazrat Messiah Maood (as) did not knew about tectonis plats so he said Earthquake are sing of GOD demands that today u utter such a nonsense words against this ayayt of the GOD and on hazrat Muhammad (as) as well.
      say GOD and hazrat Muhammad (saw) did not knew about how it rains so made the flood a sing of GOD

      this ayyat even says Frogs are sign . laugh on it Rationlist as well
      this ayyat says Locusts are sign as well , laugh on it Rationlist as well.
      Perhaps you should laugh very hard that even the LICE is a sign of the GOD

      will u dare perform these activites

      i must say Fear the GOD , Fear the GOD and Fear the GOD , do not utter such nonsense words which attack quran and other prophets as well.

  8. Mirza Ghulam undermine Jesus by saying:

    “if his(ISA(AS) one prophecy turns out to be of equal standard of his prophecy then i am willing to pay any about what were his Prophecies just that Quakes will come, drought, fight ”

    so for mirza ghulam quakes prophecy is not even good enough

  9. Mirza Ghulam undermine Jesus by saying:

    “if his(ISA(AS) one prophecy turns out to be of equal standard of his prophecy then i am willing to pay any about what were his Prophecies just that Quakes will come, drought, fight ”

    so for mirza ghulam quakes prophecy is not even good enough

    • Not an earthquake, that’s for sure. Why where there earthquakes when there were no human beings? Yes, Allah (SWT) shows signs – but:

      1) Not every earthquake is a sign
      2) Mirza wasn’t a prophet, or even a gentleman (e.g. his misogyny and death threats)
      3) Rasulullah (saw) was merciful, Mirza prayed for destruction

      If it’s signs you want, look at the manner in which Mirza died, in the manner that he prayed for, and wished upon his opponents

      Mirza’s “prophecies” don’t qualify as prophecies. They are vague and open to interpretation. Just saying “earthquake of the judgment day” means nothing. There have always been earthquakes, there always will be. I could predict “earthquake of the judgement day” today and at some point in the near future, be proven right according to Mirzology criteria.

      • @shahid

        1) u said not all earthquake are sign of punishment

        i agree with it .

        2) this is what u think , The Person for whom GOD sent plague and earthquake and killed his enemies , and showed his love for ahmadiyat till the day , and foretold all the events to hazrat Messiah Maood (as), if Such a person is not a prophet then who else is ?
        whereas ur allegation of not a gentelman is concern i Laugh on it
        World cannot decide Who is pious and who is not pious .

        It is the GOD who knows better about his people . And it is the custom of the GOD that he shows his sign to the world to prove the exalted and noble status of his prophets
        and GOD did it and showed such signs .
        Else every prophet is considered by its opponent a bad person . Have not u ever read the allegation leveled against Holy Prophet (saw).

        Hazrat Muhammad (as) was merciful , but GOD is merciful too .
        Prophets display both qualities , they show the quality of Mercy and also they cause the wrath of the GOD to come on the world and destroy those people who are sinful.

        As u are totally unaware of Quran and Haidth so let me show u an event , that is powerful rebuttal of ur allegation and proves ur ignorance from hadith

        Narrated Masruq: We were with ‘Abdullah and he said, “When the Prophet saw the refusal of the people to accept Islam he said, “O Allah! Send (famine) years on them for (seven years) like the seven years (of famine during the time) of (Prophet) Joseph.” So famine overtook them for one year and destroyed every kind of life to such an extent that the people started eating hides, carcasses and rotten dead animals………………….
        (Book #17, Hadith #121)

        now what will u say about that famine which came as the result of the prayer of the hazrat Muhmmad (as) .
        any answer ?

        again ur statement is also very vague
        U consider hazrat Messiah Maood’s (as) prophecies very vague. Thats mean u have such prophecies which are exact and precise . So give example of such prophecies.

        • Whereas the British government of the time through the technique we now know as the “Shock Doctrine” were responsible for the deaths of tens of millions of people through orchestrated famine, a million in Punjab alone, and yet a) Mirza wasn’t aware of it and b) never once rebuked or admonished the British Raj for causing such devastation on an unprecedented scale. A prophet who knew nothing and who bowed to tyrannical murderers.

        • I researched this quote of yours in Bukhari and you are presenting this totally out of context young boy. Grab a crayon and write this down!!!

          Here is the remainder of the hadith you quote:
          Bukhari

          …….So Abu Sufyan went to the Prophet and said, “O Muhammad! You order people to obey Allah and to keep good relations with kith and kin. No doubt the people of your tribe are dying, so please pray to Allah for them.” So Allah revealed: “Then watch you For the day that The sky will bring forth a kind Of smoke Plainly visible … Verily! You will return (to disbelief) On the day when We shall seize You with a mighty grasp. (44.10-16) Ibn Masud added, “Al-Batsha (i.e. grasp) happened in the battle of Badr and no doubt smoke, Al-Batsha, Al-Lizam, and the verse of Surat Ar-Rum have all passed .

          another version is as such:

          Volume 2, Book 17, Number 120:
          Narrated Abu Huraira;

          Whenever the Prophet (p.b.u.h) lifted his head from the bowing in the last Raka he used to say: “O Allah! Save ‘Aiyash bin Abi Rabi’a. O Allah! Save Salama bin Hisham. O Allah! Save Walid bin Walid. O Allah! Save the weak faithful believers. O Allah! Be hard on the tribes of Mudar and send (famine) years on them like the famine years of (Prophet) Joseph .” The Prophet further said, “Allah forgive the tribes of Ghifar and save the tribes of Aslam.” Abu Az-Zinad (a sub-narrator) said, “The Qunut used to be recited by the Prophet in the Fajr prayer.”

          The famine that Muhammad is speaking of is in terms of rain-fall. Rainfall is very much different than plate-tectonics. The lack of rain could cripple an ancient civilization. Muslims even have prayers that call for rain. This lack of rain was over mecca, the meccans had persecuted the muslims heavily!!!!!

          Rain and plate-tectonics are a completely different science.

          Here is another version of the same hadith:

          Bukhari
          Volume 2, Book 17, Number 133:
          Narrated Masruq:

          One day I went to Ibn Masud who said, “When Quraish delayed in embracing Islam, the Prophet I invoked Allah to curse them, so they were afflicted with a (famine) year because of which many of them died and they ate the carcasses and Abu Sufyan came to the Prophet and said, ‘O Muhammad! You came to order people to keep good relation with kith and kin and your nation is being destroyed, so invoke Allah I ? So the Prophet I recited the Holy verses of Sirat-Ad-Dukhan: ‘Then watch you For the day that The sky will Bring forth a kind Of smoke Plainly visible.’ (44.10) When the famine was taken off, the people renegade once again as nonbelievers. The statement of Allah, (in Sura “Ad-Dukhan”-44) refers to that: ‘On the day when We shall seize You with a mighty grasp.’ (44.16) And that was what happened on the day of the battle of Badr.” Asbath added on the authority of Mansur, “Allah’s Apostle prayed for them and it rained heavily for seven days. So the people complained of the excessive rain. The Prophet said, ‘O Allah! (Let it rain) around us and not on us.’ So the clouds dispersed over his head and it rained over the surroundings.”

          • I researched this entire incident further:

            It seems that this famine was already in place before this hadith begins…Muhammad (saw) was asking for the continuation of the famine….he was also asking allah to save the muslims who were still at mecca, they were also suffering from this famine..it wasnt just Kafirs but muslims also suffered…
            Just weeks later Muhammad asked for rain to cure the famine…
            Furthermore, this famine protected the muslims from any possible attacks from the meccans, if the meccans were busy with a famine–they couldnt possible attack the muslims in medina.. So allah punished those who were trying to kill the early muslims…Allah did not punish the innocent.

            The ahmadis claiming that allah punished the people of SF for no reason at all is very tall claim…why would allah punish people who had never even heard of ISlam???

            BUKHARI
            Volume 6, Book 60, Number 83:
            Narrated Abu Huraira:

            Whenever Allah’s Apostle intended to invoke evil upon somebody or invoke good upon somebody, he used to invoke (Allah after bowing (in the prayer). Sometimes after saying, “Allah hears him who sends his praises to Him, all praise is for You, O our Lord,” he would say, “O Allah. Save Al-Walid bin Al-Walid and Salama bin Hisham, and ‘Aiyash bin Abu Rabi’a. O Allah! Inflict Your Severe Torture on Mudar (tribe) and strike them with (famine) years like the years of Joseph.” The Prophet used to say in a loud voice, and he also used to say in some of his Fajr prayers, “O Allah! Curse so-and-so and so-and-so.” naming some of the Arab tribes till Allah revealed:–“Not for you (O Muhammad) (but for Allah) is the decision.” (3.128)

            Allah told Muhammad that it wasnt his decision for the famine, nor was it a sign of any truth, it was a decision of Allah, that was probably pre-ordained when Allah created the heavens and the earth…

            Here is the research:
            http://www.usc.edu/cgi-bin/msasearch

          • @Rationalist
            If u could give me the summaray of what do u wanna prove from ur research then it would be so good,
            as i could not get a single thing out of ur research , what do u wanna prove .?

            hmm u said

            “”Rain and plate-tectonics are a completely different science. “””

            should not i have the right to laugh ,
            Listen child , if earthquakes are coming due the tectonics plate movemnt
            then rains also comes due to some reason , and reasons are very well established and using all those reason accurate predictions of the rains are made.

            So if earthquake cannot be a sign because it comes due the tectonics plate movement , then u should also categorically say that

            “that famine did not came due to the hazrat Muhammad (as) curse, and that sahibi was quoting wrong thing
            and Hazrat Abu suffian (as) needlessly went to the hazrat Muhammad (as) for asking them for Prayers for rain ,
            and it was not due to the prayer of the hazrat Muhammad (as) that famine was lifted ”

            say it openly and i shall send that saying to ULEMA to get the fatwa kuffir for you.

            now i prove from another hadith that how much mistaken u are

            (3) Narrated Zaid bin Khalid Al-Juhani: The Prophet led us in the Fajr prayer at Hudaibiya after a rainy night. On completion of the prayer, he faced the people and said, “Do you know what your Lord has said (revealed)?” The people replied, “Allah and His Apostle know better.” He said, “Allah has said, ‘In this morning some of my slaves remained as true believers and some became non-believers; whoever said that the rain was due to the Blessings and the Mercy of Allah had belief in Me and he disbelieves in the stars, and whoever said that it rained because of a particular star had no belief in Me but believes in that star.’ ” (Book #12, Hadith #807)

            In this hadith GOD says it is HE who sent rain ,

            should not i agree with it , and i agree with it. No matter by which reason Rains come, those very causes are invoked according to the law of the GOD and the end point there is the instruction of the GOD which works

            so as it is true for the Earthquakes as well.
            it comes due to the tectonics plate, but tectonic plate movement is also dependent on the WILL of the GOD

            It is our GOD whose rules and whose instruction are followed by the each particle of this universe. and when he decided to punish them , Just one order from the GOD and then whole universe is set to move in such a way that Ultimate purpose of GOD is achieved ,
            and there is not a single partical which cannot deny the orders of the GOD

            ur all above statements are tantamount to atheism

      • And mirza ghulam himself said that prophecy of Eearth quake droughts are not so good

  10. @khalid

    you havent answered any questions of mine, why should we honor your requests?

    Do you understand the issue here? Should I write with a crayon? Can I send you a coloring book which explains islam through a pictorial presentation?

    Hello? Mcfly r u there??

  11. O ye of weak faith! You all fell for Lutf’s little diversion that there was a prophecy: there was none. In fact, the great Arab poet Labeed wrote a poem (one of the mu’allaqat) which had the phrase ‘The camping places disappeared, those where they alight, and those where they stay’ (‘affat ad-dayar mahalluha fa-maqamuha’ and then he goes on to talk about Mina in the same couplet)

    Not only did Mirza shamelessly claim this as a ‘revelation’ (Labeed’s poem is very rhythmic and sticks in the mind like a good tune), letter for letter (plagiarism), but attributed man’s word to God – which he has argued against in Braheen and in Chashma Marifat — that man’s word can never be God’s. According to Mirza’s logic, this poem was revealed to Labeed, or Allah picked up Labeed’s work, and liked it so much that he re-tweeted it to Mirza (na’oodhu billah).

    So, if some shop in Qadian had been demolished, the prophecy was fulfilled. If the British decided to move their Amritsar company, the prophecy would have been fulfilled. If the bus-stop in Batala had been moved, this ludicrous ‘prophecy’ would have been fulfilled. And if nothing else, since modern-day caravans (trains) don’t need a place to rest and alight, the prophecy has been fulfilled.

    There was no mention of ‘earthquake’ anywhere, and this ‘prophecy’ was just Arab poet’s words that rang in Mirza’s mind. Mirza read Arabic fluently and had a large library of books, so it is impossible that this famous mu’allaqa was not known to him.

    Ye of weak faith, never underestimate the subtlety of the Mirzai diversion 🙂

    • @Akber

      what u said is nothing new , before ur , ur brother in faith did the same thing

      In quran there comes about such persons

      4 But the misbelievers say: “Naught is this but a lie which he has forged, and others have helped him at it.” In truth it is they who have put forward an iniquity and a falsehood.
      5 And they say: “Tales of the ancients, which he has caused to be written: and they are dictated before him morning and evening

      Al furqan.

      poor Mr akbar

      • [admin: Khalid, we checked a paragraph that you used against several other sites, it had been taken verbatim, without explanation or attribution. You usually conduct yourself very well, and we welcome your input, but on this occasion, you seemed to be wandering into the “you attack my religion, I’ll attack yours” stance. Thanks for your continued input.]

        @admin
        as u have the right to delete whatever u wish , but i want to say two things

        1) i did not committed plagiarism at all
        2) and i did not allege Islam as well

        i gave the example to prove the point , anyway if u did not like it and deleted it then i cannot do nothing but please do not allege me of attacking islam , using some past event to show the truthfulness of present event should not be considered as the attack on islam

        • Ok i got it , i took it from a site from where i copy hadith and qurinic ayyat but did not gave the source, shall keep in mind

    • Akbar sahib, You know very well that prophecies have enough room for rejectors to doubt and mock at them. I have no doubt that the propehcy was fulfilled. You on the other hand lied when you stated that no prophecy was made until after the quake.

      • My opening sentence – read it carefully:

        “Mirza Ghulam Ahmad had never mentioned anything about earthquakes until the first week of April 1905. ” – even after the earthquake of Assam.

        and then after 5 April, his prophecies are full of the word ‘earthquake’ – 🙂

        Those are the facts. What does Labeed’s poem about a deserted camping ground that inhabitants have left behind have to do with earthquakes? Did anyone, including Mirza, indicate that it was a prophecy of an imminent earthquake?

        • So, you accept that the propecy which was linked with the quake was made before the quake.. thanks

          Now lets come to the contents of the prophecies..

          1. There will be much death as if judgment day has arrived. “Mauta mauti lag rahi hay”..

          2. Buildings will be destroyed. both temporary and permanent.

          Both fit perfectly on the earthquake which happened in Kangra.. The main feature of this catastophe was the reported state of buildings which were completely destroyed, including the nearby cantonement.

          Now, for me the truth of the prophecy is in its outcome. I apply the same principle to the hadith of Dar Qutni and various other prophecies. If the come true in all their details, why argue any further.

          • You apply the principle that whatever Mirza gave you, no matter how low his character, how shoddy his example, how off-base his prophecies, how plagiarised his writings, how foul his mouth, that he is true. Even if that makes Islam false, which is of course your stated position.

            That is why a man who plagiarised a poem by Labeed, hoping to fool his gullible followers, can be labelled a prophet by seemingly intelligent men like yourself.

          • @ lutf

            So, is Nostradumus a prophet? Some of his prophecies came true!

            You standards of life are just unbelievable, if mirza said: i predict rain, would you apply this to every single tornado or hurricane?

            The problem is that you believe that MGA was a truthful person, this is the premise that surrounds your life. Because of this premise, you believe everything this clown says, irregardless of how stupid it sounds.

        • [Note from admin: Deleted for plagiarism and personal remarks. A reminder to stay on topic and actually address some of the points raised please, instead of just plugging up the blog with verbiage that doesn’t move the discussion forward. Remember, you are a guest here. Muslims are banned from Ahmadiyya sites for spreading the truth about Mirza through his own writings. We have given you extraordinary leeway here. Please don’t abuse that privilege. Thanks.]

          • [Note from admin: Criticism of Islam is simply not allowed on this blog. We advise that you familiarise yourself with the blog rules. Thanks.]

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