I was amused to see the Mirzologists resort to advertising to push their support for illegal, imperialist wars in the run-in to the general election. It’s probably no accident that just a week after the transparently straw-man outfit “Islam4UK” got banned for talking about wanting to demonstrate against a war of occupation, that Shahid Malik MP, a man who would sooner pronounce an oath of fealty to Gordon Brown than the shahadah, should be backing a campaign by the Ahmadiyya that would make even “Muslims for Secular Democracy” blush.
Indeed, Shahid Malik, with whom it embarrasses me to share my first name, said
“[the community]…can be proud of their commitment in championing the themes of ‘loyalty, freedom, equality, respect’ and ‘peace’ – themes which help build stronger, more cohesive communities.”
If Shahid Malik thinks that the Mirzologists want anything to do with the Muslim community, he’s utterly misguided. As a trivial example, I’ll mention that an Ahmadi recently walked unquestioned into the mosque and questioned me openly( and was treated with courtesy) at Tooting Islamic Centre, where I gave a talk recently, but that any Muslim trying to get into Baitul Futuh, their centre in Morden, will get questioned remorselessly by their security guards and evicted if he wants to have a discussion armed with any of the facts about Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, their founder who was fond of calling his opponents “bastards” and “progeny of harlots”. Not the kind of thing that was ever conducive to good community relations, I think you’ll agree. In fact, a friend of mine who was Ahmadi visited the Baitul-Futuh, his own place of worship at the time, and he was questioned rudely. He walked out and walked into Islam. Alhamdulillah!
As a less trivial example, Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, the founder of the Ahmadiyya, cast out the whole of the Ummah from Islam, declaring them hellbound and satanic, whilst stealing the labels of Islam for himself and his cronies. Again, hardly conducive to good community relations. Malik is going to find it very hard to get support from his Muslim constituents in future. (Good luck with the handful of Ahmadi votes, Shahid. I hope it was worth it!)
And so it appears that the widely discredited Quilliam Foundation is gradually being eased out of the current administration’s affections as the “House Paki” du jour by the Ahmadiyya. Except that the Government has misjudged again. The Ahmadiyya does not represent Muslims at all. The Ahmadiyya is no more than 2M worldwide as opposed to the Muslims, who number in excess of 1.5 billion, growing faster than any other religion today. The Mirzology membership figures go up and down an order of magnitude from one week to the next without explanation. Their true membership in the UK is no more than 40,000, a figure which hasn’t changed significantly since the 1980s, casting doubt onto their claim that they are the most “dynamic” denomination, and it’s a figure that pales into insignificance next to the 1.6M+ Muslims of the UK. Mirzologists are useful to the government only as lapdogs, a pattern that the Ahmadiyya has followed since their founder, Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, who claimed to be Jesus’ second coming. Indeed, Masroor said in their bus pass message yesterday:
“A true Muslim can never raise his voice in hatred against his fellow citizens, nor for that matter against the ruling authority or government of the time…he should remain loyal and fully abide by the laws of the land of which he is a subject.”
Other than the fact that a Muslim cannot be a Muslim if (s)he believes in Mirza Ghulam Ahmad as a prophet, this is just waffle without meaning. Mirzologists regularly raise their voices in hatred against Muslims. Of course that won’t bother Shahid Malik and it certainly won’t bother the Labour Government, because that’s what they have been trying to achieve themselves for the last few years, starting with Jack Straw’s comments on the niqab. And speaking truth to power is Islamic. Although the Mirzologists are happy to show ample disrespect towards Pakistan, they are the perfect “House Paki” for toeing the party line on the misadventures in Iraq, Afghanistan and every other Muslim country we invade and destroy.
Any time there is a non-incident, like Islam4UK talking about a legal march that everybody knew wouldn’t happen, the Mirzologists are first to jump on the “that’s not Islam” bandwagon, but whenever Muslims are murdered around the world, the Mirzologists are silent. Silent that is except on various forums and in their houses, where they express utter delight that the Muslims are getting what was coming to them.
Meanwhile, Brits of all persuasions, Muslim or not, brown or not, are united against oppression, and voice their opinions loudly. The Mirzologists are mute. Why? Because their vision of loyalty is not loyalty to an ideal of democracy or freedom of speech, but loyalty to power.
Muslims speak truth to power by direct command of the prophet who said:
“The best jihad is to speak the truth in the face of a tyrant.”
This is what Muslims do. This is what the best of the British do. This isn’t what Mirza Ghulam Ahmad taught and so it isn’t part of the Ahmadiyya ethos. I’ve never known of Ahmadis being encouraged to engage in a peaceful protest about war, whether it be the famous march against the Iraq debacle, or the recent onslaught against the innocent civilian population of Gaza. Indeed, when I’ve asked a scholarly Ahmadi about this, he affirmed that Palestinian kids die because they didn’t accept Mirza Ghulam Ahmad as the Promised Christ. I kid you not.
Dissent against tyranny is the way Muslims roll.
It’s the way decent people in this country and in other countries roll. It’s lending your voice to the oppressed, which the prophets have done since time immemorial. The hucksters, like Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, were busy bootlicking Queen Victoria while her forces raped India and bled her dry. But never mind that, eh? Let’s get a message out on some buses about what good “house pakis” we are!
Other than the sheer cringe factor in seeing a non-Muslim entity like the Mirzologists of the Ahmadiyya tout themselves as Muslims on a double decker, there is also the preponderance of thought-stopping slogans to contend with.
“Loyalty, Freedom & Peace”
Loyalty? Of course Muslims are loyal. I wrote about that in 2006 in a widely read piece. (Warning, those were the days I used very bad language in my writing. I stopped over a year ago, but if you can tolerate filthy language, it’s still a very good piece about the loyalty of Muslims, demonstrated empirically by the University of Lancaster. And no, I doubt they spoke to the Mirzologists.)
Freedom? Not for their members.
Peace? Not towards dissidents or people who leave the oppressive, repressive cult that doesn’t allow free speech to its members.
I’m reminded of Orwell:
Treachery is Loyalty
Oppression is Freedom
Tumult is Peace
Their founder, Mirza Ghulam Ahmad wasn’t a pleasant man. He was certainly treacherous towards Muslims. There is even some evidence that he was hypocritical in his stance about his British rulers.
He was certainly oppressive, conducting a vicious advertising campaign against a married woman, prophesying death for her family members and husband and eventual marriage to him, publishing “revelations” of seeing her naked, all of which only stopped when he got a taste of his own medicine. One wonders why his “god” stopped talking to him then.
And he certainly caused tumult, effectively destroying community relations between his cult members and Hindus and Christians, especially after a Hindu leader, Pandit Lekh Ram got mysteriously murdered after a Mirza prophecy and when Abdullah Atham, a Christian convert from Islam, went into hiding to avoid the likely outcome of another of Mirza’s death threats. Mirza was eventually given a gag order and forced to stop predicting the deaths of his opponents. His “god” had been prevented from revealing death for people. How interesting.
Our attention is then turned towards their hippy slogan of “Love for All, Hatred for None”. As has been proven over and over, their hatred shows no bounds. Their membership uses hateful language towards all Muslims. They gloated about the Pakistan earthquake, saying that no Mirzologist died, and that Pakistan and Kashmir had been punished for killing some Mirzologists a few days earlier. They said that the tsunami in Indonesia, which killed hundreds of thousands, was because that country rejected the second coming of Jesus Christ; you’ve guessed it, Mirza Ghulam Ahmad is the man the Mirzologists claim is Jesus.
Yet another messiah claimant to add to the long line of fruit cakes and impostors that Jesus and Muhammad (peace and prayers be on them both) warned us about.
I don’t really have a problem with the advert or its contents, other than the fact that the Ahmadiyya doesn’t speak for Islam, as according to universal Muslim consensus, Mirzology is a cult that lies outside Islam. What I have a problem with is the Ahmadiyya hypocrisy. They should lay bare their true teachings and practices, warts and all – show the world the repressive and hateful cult that they are. Or at least change their slogan to one that is truly reflective of their values:
Love for All (imperialists)
Hatred for None (bar Muslims and many of their own members)
If one studies the treatment received by his opponents at the hands of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani, slogan of “love for all hatred for none” sounds hollow. But then he never boasted such a claim.
Cult can not Love Cult always Hate. Ahmadiyya is Cult & Islam is Deen.
A well written piece brother Shahid with valid points which no Ahmadi can refute. Hypocrisy and loyalty to power, I couldn’t have said it any better. The slogan ‘love for all hatred for none’ is not only a gimmick and a fallacy but it is unIslamic. Allah (SWT) says in the The Holy Qur’an , Surah An-Nisa (4) Ayah (36) “…Allah does not love him who is proud, boastful”. I guess the Ahmadis do love such a person though. The tafsir of Jalaluddin Suyuti on the ayah above is one which everyone should reflect upon:
And worship God, declare His Oneness, and associate nothing with Him. Be kind to parents, being dutiful and gentle-mannered, and near kindred, and to orphans, and to the needy, and to the neighbour who is near, to you in terms of [physical] vicinity or kinship, and to the neighbour who is a stranger, the one far from you in terms of [physical] vicinity or kinship; and to the friend at your side, a travelling companion, or a colleague at work, and, it is also said, one’s wife; and to the wayfarer, the one cut off during a journey, and to what your right hands own, of bondsmen. Surely God loves not the conceited, the arrogant, and the boastful, [the one who boasts] before people of what he has been given.
Mirza Ghulam Ahmad would often boast before people of what he has been given… that surely comes as no surprise to most us.
Yet again an excellent piece brother Shahid, may Allah reward you.
At least the cult are finding more amusing ways to spend the great wealth they have amassed from their naive, gullible and sorry members.
Many people, groups and individuals have tried to destroy Islam since it’s inception many years ago and all have failed walhamdulilah.
I don’t think the Muslims of the world are quaking in their boots by the new weapon that the intellects of this heretical cult have come up with.
It’s truly laughable.
I really find it quite laughable that this whole website is dedicated to Ahmadi-bashing. If there was anything remotely factual about what’s been written here, rather than the mere opinion of someone who seems to have a grudge against a community, it might be worth something.
Do you not think that rather than criticising the Ahmadis for trying to defend the peaceful essence of Islam, that you should be doing something more constructive?
Whether you consider Ahmadis to be Muslims or not, I think all that this article does is try to confuse the issue with a lot of propaganda against an attempt to help Muslims in this country. I didn’t realise there was a patent on Islam as you seem to think there is, and seeing as this is a free country, Ahmadis are free to defend Islam as they see fit. I suggest that you put your efforts into doing the same rather than criticising this Muslim community.
Sophia,
your words are empty and like your cult, devious and two faced, I am sorry to say.
The essence of Islam which you talk about also dictates that we believe in the finality of the Prophet Muhammad PBUH, which is something all Ahmadi’s fail to do.
This reluctance, to do that which there is consensus upon within Muslims, is something which puts you at odds with Islam.
You and I both know that this is nothing more than a publicity stunt. The Ahmadi’s do not want to help the Muslims of this or any other country so please save your breath.
What you forget, dear sister, is that most of us who comment on here were once part of this cult, so please do not patronise us with statements such as the ones you have made above.
I was there and joined in when the sweets were being handed around and the frenzied congratulatory phone calls were being made to celebrate the death of General Zia Ul Haq.
There was no feeling of remorse or sadness by Ahmadi’s for the loss of that leader of Muslims. What’s changed now which would make this horrible cult ‘attempt to help Muslims in this country’.
Come and visit my family who are still Ahmadi’s and hear for yourself what they have to say about those Muslims who you claim this campaign is trying to help.
You can not play the ‘we are misunderstood and misquoted’ card with us I’m afraid.
We very much understood when we were there and even better understand, now we have left, Alhamdulilah.
We witnessed, heard and foolishly acted upon the vile, vicious and vindictive tripe that was fed to us by the leaders of this cult.
The contents of this blog are factual and not ‘mere opinion’ as you put it. The only opinions on this blog are like the one which I am going to give you now, you are deluded. This opinion of mine you can take or leave, however that which we refer to out of your own books are unquestionable facts.
Oh and please remember, we were there!
We have got the T-Shirts to prove it!
We have got the relatives (naive and gullible who are still members of this cult) who will testify to the fact that WE were once with them.
Save yourself some time and stop painting your devious and callous cult as saviours of Muslims, whose mouth’s butter wouldn’t melt in.
MashaAllah – brother you should be making blog posts too, your writing is often an inspiration to me. Jazakallah khayr.
Brother, Can you tell me if anything is left of Islam, if yes where is it, where to find it. There are so many different sects and everyone says that they are on the right path and rest are all wrong. Though I don’t have much knowledge as you do but I’ve seen so many fatwas from every sect about the Kufr of all others. Than who is right and who is wrong. Are Shias on the right path or Sunnis, or wahabi or brelvi or sufi etc etc.
Also, I would strongly say that believe in the finality (as you think) of the Prophet Muhammad PBUH was never the essence of Islam, it is only created by todays Maulvis. At the time of prophet Muhammad PBUH, anyone who says Kalma shada (I bear witness that there is none worthy of worship except Allah and I bear witness that Muhammad PBUH is His servant and messenger) was considered Muslim. And accepting prophet Muhammad PBUH as the last prophet was no requirment neither at that time nor in many centuries later. So if you think that you understand Islam more than prophet Muhammad PBUH or his companions than what can I say.
Nobody has any right to declare anyone a non-muslim who declares himself as muslim.
Assalamo Alaikum Wa rahmatullah
Unfortunately I would have to say that the above article is grossly inaccurate. If you would like to find out the true beliefs of the Ahmadiyya community please visit the following websites: from http://www.alislam.org http://mta.tv/ http://www.loveforallhatredfornone.org/ or Sky channel 787
They contain links to all the Ahmadi material, including all the books of the Promised Messiah, in English, Urdu and Arabic.
The attack on the personality of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad is totally unfounded, and untrue. Even his opposition held him to be the “the Profoundest theologian from among the present day Muslims” Allama Muhammad Iqbal (The India Antiquary Journal: Vol.29 Sept 1900)
Many others in opposition to the Mirza Ghulam Ahmad have also written on his piety, defence of Islam, and his knowledge of the Holy Quran. I can provide full texts if anyone wishes.
Hazrat Khawaja Ghulam Fareed, Sajjadah Naseen of Chachrhan Sharif; Isharaat-e-Fareedi, Vol.3 P69-70 “Look at his Arabic work which surpasses human contrivance: all his works are permeated with profound perceptions, truths and spiritual guidance.”
Maulvi Muhammad Hussain Sahib of Batal, in his journal Ishaatas Vol. Vii, Nos 6-11 “In our opinion, keeping in mind this age and its circumstances, this is the book the equal of which has not been published in Islam to this day, whatever might happen hereafter. The author has proved himself so steadfast in the service of Islam through his pen, his money, his tongue, etc., that few such instances are to be found among Muslims”
The Ahmadiyya Jammat is the only Jammat within the Muslim Umma, and is united under the Khilafat. The Jammat spans over 195 countries and has a following of more than 200 million. Ahmadis are also the only Muslims to accept the Imam Mehdi and Promised Messiah, as prophesied by the Quran and Hadith.
Please feel free to contact me if you would like any other information.
Jazakamullah
Salmaan
Two comments:
A) Media campaigns like this are no substitute for 1431 years of substance.
B) When most people see “Muslim”, they are not going to think “Ahmadi”, unless they spend a TREMENDOUS amount of money and effort to differentiate themselves from Muslims.
Dear Salman
Please also visit http://www.ahmadibeliefs.com to see actual prints from writings of Hazrat Sb and appreciate the true beliefs compiled in different categories.
Dear Salman,
Please also check http://www.ahmadibeliefs.com for actual prints from books of Hazrat Sb to appreciate true Ahmadi Beliefs compiled into different categories.
ahmadibeliefs.com is an excellent reference. It is such a revealing site that in the list of sites referenced at the head of the homepage of thecult.info, it is linked to first. We recommend it highly to all seekers of knowledge on Mirza Ghulam Ahmad’s writings.
Nicely written shahid, you a warrior for Islam. I pray that Allah gives you high rank in the Suraya….
This article is truly an outstanding and ingenious masterpiece.
And I do fully agree, Ahmadiyya should NOT speak for Islam. The advert on these red buses should be “Ahmadis for loyalty, freedom and peace”. They can lie, it is indeed a free country, but let them not speak for any other religion.
Dear Farhan,
Assalamo Alaikum Wa rahmatullah
Thank you for your comments. I am not sure what point you are making in point A. With regard to point B; You are missing the point, Islam is being attacked from all angles in the west. The bus campaign is to help dispel common misconceptions about Islam, and to show the world the true nature of the teachings of our Master the Holy Prophet Muhammad (may peace and blessing of Allah be upon him).
Every Ahmadi is also a Muslim. An Ahmadi is one who follows ‘Ahmad’. Ahmad as we all know is the other name of the Holy Prophet Muhammad (may peace and blessing of Allah be upon him), as is given by Allah in surah Al-Saff 61:6
“And remember when Jesus, son of Mary, said, ‘O children of Israel, surely I am Allah’s Messenger unto you, fulfilling that which is before me of the Torah, and giving glad tidings of a Messenger who will come after me. His name will be Ahmad.’ And when he came to them with clear proofs, they said, ‘This is clear enchantment.’
Wasalaam
Dear ahmadibeliefs,
Assalamo Alaikum Wa rahmatullah
Jazakamullah for the link, I have not seen that website before, and I have to say that this is not one of websites published by the Ahmadiyya Jammat. Some of the views expressed are distorted, and are not of the Ahmadiyya community. The official website is http://www.alislam.org As for actual prints, they can be found in full at the address given. Here is a shortcut to the original ones in Urdu: http://alislam.org/urdu/library/87.html (English also available)
If you wish to learn the true essence of Islam, and the Ahmadiyya, a good place to start is http://www.loveforallhatredfornone.org
Jazakmullah
Wasslaam
Funny guy – talk about confirmation bias!
Can you please stop advertising your site? You’ve been allowed to post several links already. Please get the message, many of us here used to be Ahmadis, we know the score, you can’t pull the wool over our eyes and it’s about time you removed the wool from yours. Please save yourself. If you genuinely are new to this, then welcome. Ask us anything you like.
Dear Salman,
You have put an allegation:
Quote- Some of the views expressed are distorted, -Unquote
Please advise which portion of the website is distorted, whatever is wrong on the website will be changed. Please, don’t put any allegation without a proof. Whatever you find wrong here, explain to us.
wa ‘alaykum as-salaam Salmaan,
Thanks for your kind comments. To be frank, seeing an advertisement on a bus is not going to change someone’s opinion of Islam. That is best done through personal interaction. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not against such advertisements. But, don’t think they are going to cause a revolution…
Just as Ahmadis do not believe we are Muslims, I do not believe Ahmadis are Muslims. They are of a distinct religion largely based off of Islam which follows a different person.
Dear Faud,
Assalamo Alaikum Wa rahmatullah
Please let me remind you of a Hadith which explains that the Holy Prophet Muhammad (may peace and blessing of Allah be upon him) has forbidden Muslims to doubt the intention of anyone who recites the Kalima, Allah alone knows what is in the heart and mind of a person. This Hadith is reported from Muslim, Kitabul Imaan:
“The Holy Prophet (peace be upon him) sent us in a raiding party. We raided Huraqat of Juhaina in the morning. I caught hold of a man and he said, ‘There is no God but Allah’. I attacked him with a spear. It once occurred to me and I talked about it to the Apostle (peace be upon him). The Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) said, ‘Did he profess “There is no god but Allah,” and even then you killed him?’ I said, ‘Messenger of Allah, he made a profession of it out of fear of the weapon’. He (the Holy Prophet) observed, ‘Did you tear his heart out in order to find out whether it had professed or not?’ And he went on repeating it to me.”
In Bukhari, Kitabul Imaan tells us what Islam is based upon:
Hadhrat Ibne ‘Omar relates that the Holy Prophet said:
“Islam is based on five pillars – to bear witness that none is worthy of worship except Allah and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah; and to offer the Salat (formal worship of God); and to pay the Zakat (obligatory minimum requirements of financial contribution in the cause of Allah); and to perform Hajj (pilgrimage to the House of Allah); and to keep the fast in the month of Ramadhan.”
No person, government, political group, or any other groups’ opinion matters when compared to Allah (Swt). All Ahmadis follow the Islam as laid 1400 years ago by our Master Muhammad (May peace and blessings of Allah be upon him). Ahmadi’s have every right to call themselves Muslims. A Muslim is one who submits to the will of Allah.
Jazakamullah
Wasalaam
Dear Shahid,
Assalamo Alaikum Wa rahmatullah
Please accept my humble apologies, my intention was not to advertise, but simply provide links for anyone who wishes to find the information from the source. I will refrain from posting any other general links.
Jazakamullah
Waslaaam
Salmaan,
You are not prohibited from posting links here, it was just the repetition we don’t like. Remember, our links are not allowed on your sites at all, so this discussion, which would be impossible in an Ahmadiyya forum, is only permitted here. That’s freedom!
You are right about the hadith. It is very easy to gain entry into Islam. That is not in dispute. However, once you take the shahadah, you undertake to be Muslim. It is a solemn testimony. If you then voice a belief that takes you outside of Islam, like belief in a new prophet, despite the clear commandments in the Qur’an and Ahadith directing you otherwise, then that is kufr. So the entry conditions are simple, but once you are Muslim, you cannot change Islam to something that it is not. The deen is protected. Ahmadiyya is not Islam.
Please study Islam sincerely, from the best Muslim scholars, insha’Allah, if you sincerely seek the face of Allah (SWT), then hidaayah is from Him alone.
Dear Shahid,
Thank you for your reply, I understand the point you are trying to make. Unfortunately it is not a point supported by the Quran or by any Hadith. The Quran doesn’t not lay any such condition.
All Muslims believe that there will be a Prophet after the Holy Prophet Muhammad (may peace and blessing of Allah be upon him) in the guise of the Imam Mehdi and/or Jesus(as). But that does not mean they do not believe in Muhammad (may peace and blessing of Allah be upon him) as Khaatumun Nabiyyeen. Ahmadis are no different. The Ahmadiyya Jammat are the only Muslims who have recognised the Imam Mehdi.
I’m sorry I do not understand your point about ‘The Deen is protected’ Deen simply means path. A path which may or may not be correct as described in Surah Al Karifrun 109:6
Ahmadiyyat is the True Islam. Islam, as Prophesised by Muhammad (may peace and blessing of Allah be upon him), has been lost to the Pleiades. So much so that Islam as we know it today has broken down into countless sects, all of whom declare each other non Muslim.
Allah’s promises to mankind in Al Hajj 22:75
“Allah chooses Messengers from among angles, and among men. Surely Allah is All-Hearing, All-Seeing.”
The Imam Mehdi and Promised Messiah was sent by Allah in the late 1800s, to revive the religion, and to bring back the community of the Holy Prophet Muhammad (May Peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) and his companions.
Jazakamullah
Sorry Salmaan, you’re a little late for the debate, it was settled as soon as Mirza claimed prophet-hood. Muslims did not form a new sect, thus violating clear Qur’anic injunctions. Ahmadis did.
Now I won’t allow you to hijack this post to discuss the already discredited theology of the Ahmadiyya, you can refer to any scholar (a real one, not the ones trained to lie by the jamiah college) for that. (Qur’an and Sunnah totally support what I’ve said. Only a handful of Ahmadis support your twisted distortions)
Please address the specific points raised in the post now. There are other posts where you can freely discuss theology. You’ll be welcome there, or on the forum. Maybe you’ll join the ranks of the Muslims, as many have since I rejoined the ranks of the Muslims, alhamdulillah. Many thanks.
Thanks again for your comment.
First, be aware that the Ahmadi community declares all “non-Ahmadis” to be Kafireen. I would be happy to show you where even on alislam.org in English.
Second, You cannot take one statement in isolation of the rest of the corpus of Islam. Imagine a person who said “I believe in Allah, and Muhammad is the Prophet of God”, but then said “Allah is a black man who lived in Chicago” and that Muhammad is Elijah Muhammad. Would you consider such a person to be Muslim? There is a real religion that believes this.
Its not about what words you say, its about what your meaning is behind those words and what other qualifying (or disqualifying) factors exist. When Ahmadis say “Mirza Ghulam is a prophet of God who came after Muhammad”, they have disqualified themselves from Islam.
OK so when Ahmadis are trying to show the true peaceful Islam you say we shoudln’t so why don’t you go and advertise it yourself??? let me guess you are not a united community and no leader thus unorganised thats why you go around bashing Ahmadis. Get over with your presonal grudge against us we all know why you left Jamaat Ahamdiyya.
If it is worng to say that Mulslims should be loyal, peacueful and law abiding citizens then you should go around advertising your hate if you thinks that makes you feel any better.
Pathetic article written with emotions, hate and deception.
The only person with hate here is you Sohail. As for your insinuation based on gossip, once again, I’m delighted that through your hateful, un-Islamic action, you are proving day-by-day that I made the right decision to leave Mirzology and revert to Islam.
If you used your brain for one second instead of relying on your back-biting gossip network Sohail, you might have a chance when your Creator questions you on Al-Yawm al-Qiyamah. Ahmadiyya thrives on gossip and hatred. I know, it’s the part of it I always found the most distasteful when I was one of you.
Alhamdulillah, my conscience is clear.
Dear Ex-Ahmadi
Thank you for your response. As we are going by personal experience, I would have to say I have had none of the experiences that you have had. In my experience, the Ahmadis I have met have been nothing short of loving and live up to the high ideals of Islam.
Can you actually address any of the post please Sophia? Ahmadis are nice to non-Muslims – and those Muslims who don’t question their beliefs. Get on the wrong side of them and you’ll soon see the ugly side. It’s called hypocrisy Sophia. A lot of us here left the Ahmadiyya Cult after reflection, study and experience. The way we have been treated since we’ve left has been anything but loving. Given your opening response though, it might just be that you don’t truly subscribe to “love for all, hatred for none”….
Yes, I can confirm that. They would like to convince you of their beliefs. But, if you start to question them or explain why they are wrong using evidence and reasoned logic, they will call you a “mullah” and initiate hostile behavior.
I have only ever experienced hostility and prejudice as an Ahmadi..something I have to battle with everyday of my life.
May Allah guide those who harm Ahmadis and guide Ahmadis to Islam.
findings, will you please explain? I’m wondering if I misunderstood you.
Sorry Br Shahid, I do not understand. What would you like me to explain?
Ahmadis are not bad people at all, thats not the point of our internet exposure, it is MGA and his family that have tricked the honest and hard working people of the punjab.
Ahmadis are great people, mormons are even better people, have you ever met an average mormon family? they are awesome in their sphere of life. But, if you study their belief system you will quickly realize that joseph smith lied to the masses. Ahmadiyya shares a simliar distinction.
Get the picture?
WE CAN WHAT WE WILL DO —CIRCA 1883
This looks like a concerted effort by Ahmadi’s not only to advertise on buses but also to post misleading comments on this blog site.
Fair play to them, they have been hit so hard by revelations on this blog that the least they can do is come on and start to engage in a debate.
It’s a shame their leadership warns them not to do just that.
ill-informed readers are praising the qadiani bus. they should know that mirzaism is not islam. they cannot speak on behalf of muslims. 10 downing and westminster too must know that, in spite of being their lapdogs, disciples of mirza are not representative of muslims. their appeasing slogan “muslims for loyalty, freedom & peace” is a sneaky and despicable attempt to hurt the sentiments of more than 1.5 billion muslims of the world.
in a democratic and free society, like britain, mirzais and all others are free to express their beliefs but nobody has the right to masquerade another faith.
the mirzais are reenacting their pakisani strategy but at a horrendous cost to the british taxpayers. in pakistan here is no bar on the mirzai faith. they enjoy equal, or perhaps more than equal, status in their homeland. for instance, the chief police officer of the largest pakistani city, karachi, is an avid mirzai. yet a majority of mirzai reside in britain as political asylees enjoying social security and other benefits on the basis of largely false documentation. this inclides the head of the community, mirza masroor, who recently received his british passport.
mirzais must stop their smear campaign against muslims and others who love freedom and peace. mirzai loyalty is dubious now that they are trying to consolidate yet another center of mirzaism in the uk after qadian and chenab nagar (rabwah). the burial of mirza tahir in the uk, instead of that in qadian or chenab nagar is a henous attempt to gravitate mirzai populace to the uk.
Sorry, I don’t get it.
On one hand, Ahmadi’s are not allowed to call themselves muslim, yet no thanks or recognition is given to them for demonstrating a much needed ‘peaceful’ image or impression of Islam. Why?
If they are not deserving of this action or status, then why not direct the energy, not at Ahmadi bashing, but at encouraging contributions from a ‘recognised’ muslim community to act and propagate the spirit of Islam through similar media ( I assume nobody has any objections to such media being used for the propagation of Islam, its values or to address common mis-conceptions)?
If a small , minority , insignificant community like Ahmadi’s can do it, it should be easy for 2M Muslims in the UK, right?
mirzais have opted themselves out of islam by believing and propagating mirza as a prophet, while declaring his opponents as non-muslims . they can renounce mirza and return to islam. muslims will welcome them with open arms.
it is a mirzai ploy to portray uk muslims in a dilapidated state. it is a tactic to show them divided. contrary to mirzai thinking, there are uk-based muslim entities actively promoting the cause of justice, freedom, and peace. just count those organizations and their output and you’ll know what they are doing. again, contrary to mirzai mindset, these organizations are deeply involved in spreading the message of islam while engaging themselves in all walks of life. they are an integral part of the uk society. they are committed people who perform instead of wasting their resources on propaganda. to name a few, mpac, islamophobia watch, islamic foundation, oxford center for islamic studies and hundreds of other voluntary (no chanda-paying) community organizations are contributing to life in the uk. please do not try to underestimate and undermine their work. check muslim yellow pages or do a google search on the uk muslims and you’ll know who they are and what they stand for. they are not in need of cheap propaganda ploys like paid ads on london buses.
please tell us where do 200 million mirzais live in the world if the uk group is only “a small, minority, insignificant community?”
Peacelover..
Where in my statement was i undermining the noble work of other voluntary Muslim organisations?
This website , the owner stated the community is approx 40k UK, so if so, it is a minority.
I also do not see a problem of ‘chanda’ paying organisations – it is a voluntary contribution. I assume such contributions or donations is what all muslims organisations work from, right?
So , i take it that advertising on buses is “… cheap propaganda ploys…” and something you do not advocate for any Muslim group or organisation in order to promoting there cause through this or other mass media? or is it that this particular group , the Ahmadis should not be doing it? please clarify.
Chanda is not voluntary. It is a compulsory cult tax, paid at the rate of 6.25%, and it is payable even on Job Seekers’ Allowance, Income Support and Child Benefit. Mirza Masroor, the current leader of the Ahmadiyya cult, stated clearly in a sermon on January 8th 2010:
Note that although Muslims are very quick to make financial sacrifices, often generously, these are not obligatory or imposed on them. Only Zakah is obligatory in Islam. Therefore the imposition of a mandatory cult tax, even on those who are poor, is an innovation, taking Ahmadiyya away from Islam.
Ahmadis are free to promote their own cause, as long as they aren’t fraudulent about it. What Muslims object to is their posing as a Muslim organisation. They are not a Muslim organisation. In fact, they are anti-Muslim. This can be verified through research, because they don’t openly admit it and most Ahmadis will not openly profess their hatred of mainstream Muslims or Islam.
As long as they don’t speak on behalf of Muslims and they’re clear that they speak for their own religion, no problem.
Would you mind telling us if you’re an Ahmadi? (You’re at liberty not to answer this question, I’m just curious.)
element
you did not make an explicit statement to undermine muslim organizations but overall implication of your initial message was just that.
you did not answer where are those 200 million mirzais about whom your cult makes loud claims.
before my response, shahid has given you a satisfactory andswer on chanda. please enlighten us what and how your cult does for the collection of zakat.
of the hundreds of yardsticks, just run a content analysis on iqra tv and mta and you’ll know who talks of islam.if you’ve not already done, you’ll realize that mirzaism is what mirzaism is: a cult. warts and all, muslim entities try to stick to one and only thing: islam.
go to even a small public library in the uk and count the books by muslim authors. then show us what intellectual contribution is there by the cult members. these are but a few objective criterua to judge.
again, in a free society, your cult and others are free to speak but not on behalf of others and not to masquerade another faith. change your bus ad to “mirzais for…” and not a leaf will turn.
I would differ on the issues raised on chunda / zakat. A discussion for a different blog /article, as are a few other points made. In particular, Shahid on this site states the community in the UK is about 40k, .. apologies i cannot recall the exact point where this was made. My reference was that.
And if the community is a minority ,and the est. 2m UK Muslims are a majority – then why are Muslims letting the Ahmadis take the initiative here? Stop playing the ‘not muslim card’ and get out there and better it. That is a more worthy approach. ‘compete with each other in good things’ . And if this community is 200m big, it is still small compared to the the +1bn muslim community… I await a much needed bus / tv / poster or any other such activity to help present a true picture of islam.
There are muslim brothers and sisters here, and in Europe who are unemployed because of their Muslim names. Because of the prejudice created by media. Yet, surely they need help to address this with a positive message?
As ‘ex-Ahmadis’ i am surprised none here has the objectivity to praise any of good work of this community. It seems a very biased analysis of a community. correct me if i have missed any article that remotely proves me wrong.
If the sole issue is because of them ‘masquerading’ as muslims or acting ‘ fraudulently’ AND you have evidence, then make a legal challenge… the very least you’ll get your free publicity…. oh, and i am sure you’ll get it funded from a non -chunda paying organisation.
Element, your point is well-taken. Here are my comments:
I live in the US, where the Muslims are largely united, actively and growing influential. Conversely, the Ahmadis are non-existent and just try to convince people that ‘Esa (AS) died in Kashmir or that everyone other than them is a ‘Mullah’. They are ignored.
I’m not the most familiar with the UK, but I know enough to see that the Ahmadis do not control the spotlight of the title ‘Muslim’. A single bus advertisement compared to the sustained efforts of the greater Muslim community is insignificant. When ordinary Muslims interact with Europeans on a consistent basis, that changes minds. I’m confident Ahmadis do this too, but spot advertisements on buses does little.
Farhan, what has “the sustained efforts of the greater Muslim community” achieved?
The Ahmadiyya jamaat are just a small number of people, but we are alhamdulillah the epitomy of the term ‘united’, because we have a Khalifa. If he advises us on something in his Friday sermon, we immediately follow it.
On the other hand, when I go to other Muslim prayer rooms, there is disunity among each and every worshipper. Some will pray with their hands on their sides; some will perform sajdah with a block of wood; some say different prayers; some only follow the imam after he has moved, while other will move with the imam; others (most people in my experience) don’t even bother praying, but just come to talk. And praying in the mosque is just one aspect of your disunity.
Seriously, you can claim a number of things, but unity is definitely not one of them. We have a KHALIFA, how much more unity can you ask for lol?!!!!
United? Like the Lahoris? Or the new sub-shoots of your cult that keep springing up in Germany and the Pacific Rim? Or like the factions that fought for the title of K2? Or the fight between Mirza Rafi and Mirza Tahir’s factions (a physical fight) for the throne of K4? Or like the bitching that goes on in lajna day-in, day-out? You keep deluding yourself chum, that’s what being in a cult is all about. Shiny, happy people! Keep smiling and paying your taxes.
United?
As you likely know, the Ahmadis are split into two sects: Qadian and Lahore.
The Qadian sect split into the Anwar-ul Islam Movement of Nigeria, the Jama’at Ahmadiyya Al Mouslemeen and the Jamaat ul Sahih al-Islam. There’s another group that doesn’t come to mind right now…
There’s also the Lahori sect itself split with the Haqiqat Pasand Party.
As for Khalifah, watch this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rKEP9HSvyQ
I wanted to add something- The worldwide Sunni Muslim community is largely theologically homogeneous. The differences are in smaller issues of fiqh or higher level understandings, but they agree in all main theological issues. That’s why the Muslims from China teach the same exact things as the Muslims from France. We are united theologically.
I realized this from reading about the different groups, personal experience, and this excellent book:
http://www.central-mosque.com/fiqh/diffumm.pdf
go ahead, start a new thread on zakat.
both explicitly and implicitly, you continue to undermine muslims. there are three objective criteria for comparsion: mass media, organizations, and literary output. see what muslims are achieving on these counts and refrain from presenting the propagandist cult as an achiever. it is not a question of minority vs majority. what is being asked is a verifiable source of your claim that there are 200 million mirzais in the world. do not confuse the issue.
you await an activity presenting a true picture of islam? get out, open your eyes and ears. just ring up islamic foundation in leicester or watch iqra tv. oxford center for islamic studies at oxford university, funded by muslims, will take you to academic heights on islam. these are just drops in the ocean. there are literally hundreds of other sources on islamic activity. move your fingers. don’t just sit there defending a cult.
oh yes, islamophobia watch, mpac and other community organizations are actively pursuing to create an awareness on discrimination against muslims. islamic human rights commission is another example. can any mirzai entity even remotely match their work? instead of propaganda ads on “loyalty” muslim organizations are struggling for the rights of the dispossessed. howzat!
by the way, i do not reside in britain or anywhere in europe. yet i’m aware of some of the activities of muslims in that region. i assume you are a british resident. yet you are so oblivious to their active presence?
for your information the mirzai masquerade has been lifted long time ago. they are banned to paddle themselves as “muslims” across the arab world, pakistan, indonesia, malaysia and there is growing awareness in african countries. there is no need for a legal challenge. again, in 1935, in the state of bahawalpur, they were legally defeated.
Hilarious,
‘I would differ on the issues raised on chunda / zakat. A discussion for a different blog /article, as are a few other points made. ‘
Why do you refuse to discuss those things which would embarrass your whole belief structure and false claims of being Muslims following Islam.
I know an individual who had paid your innovated extortion duty all his life in the belief that he would be buried in your heavenly graveyard (what a disgraceful notion), only to be denied because he had missed a single payment somewhere along the years.
There was no love for one of your own obedient ones in that instance never mind for all.
His family were humiliated and made to make up the missed payment before he was buried. Love for all indeed. I can give you names to verify the story if you so wish.
Stop pretending to be all upright and moral by trying to help those very same Muslims who hate everything you stand for. UNANIMOUSLY.
Please talk about the pints raised about your heretical cult, never mind brownie point scoring.
Shahid, very nicely written.
Commercial ad campaigns are indeed for commercial enterprises who do not have a message that they can convey otherwise, or have nothing to contribute to the marketplace of ideas.
Very tacky, almost American.
Hey! I’m an American!
Good blog,brother Shahid!
Why don’t you publish my post? Is it too much of an eye opener for you?
I love it Shahid!
Far from entertaining, I think this blog clearly shows how sick your imagination is.
One thing is to believe or not believe in the claim of someone but quite another is to change the meaning of Hadiths and Surahs of the Holy Quran to suit your argument. Don’t worry, you are not alone, God mentions this very practice in the Holy Quran:
“O People of the Book! why do you confound truth with falsehood and hide the truth knowingly?” – Chapter 3: Verse 72 of the Holy Quran
You quote the following hadith in one of your other blogs, Sahih Muslim, Book 041, Number 7015, where the Dajjal is mentioned but as previous people of the book, you highlight one thing but intentionally forget to mention another. If you can see the very Dajjal mentioned in this hadith then where is your Christ, son of Mary.
Let me assure you might want to wait for your own Christ, son of Mary, to appear as mentioned in the Hadith and even your progeny might wait with you or after you till the Day of Judgement but your wait will be in vain as your attitude shows that you are incapable of comprehending the very meaning of Hadiths and Surahs of the Holy Quran and are willing to twist their meaning to suit your very own imaginative arguments.
Show me some signs of the Christ, son of Mary, mentioned in the hadith, give me some arguments, give me something meaningful at least. Can you?
“any Muslim trying to get into Baitul Futuh, their centre in Morden, will get questioned remorselessly by their security guards and evicted if he wants to have a discussion armed with any of the facts about Mirza Ghulam Ahmad”
This is not true. I have had Muslims from other religions come and stand next to me in prayer at Baitul Futuh, then leave. I have invited other Muslims for a tour and they have left, no-one was asked any questions. The only reason security is tight is because of the persecution we suffer, but if any Muslim was to CALMLY ask questions about Ahmadiyyat, they would certainly NOT be kicked out.
I love how we are alhamdulillah by the grace of Allah spreading day by day, and you, Shahid, are getting so worked up starting your little website and everything.
Makes me smile.
Keep doing what you’re doing, you won’t get anywhere. But at least it’s entertaining
Lies and bluster. Alhamdulillah, your organisation is spending its members’ money on advertising campaigns and professionally made video programmes in a futile attempt to counter our programmes made for free whilst we spread truth and people leave your cult left, right and centre. You’re free to believe what you like.
Interesting Freudian slip. Presumably you meant “sects” right?
We will keep on doing what we’re doing, and people will keep on leaving your cult. Insha’Allah.
this mirzai, who did not have the courage to put his/her screen name, has provided good entertainment! “spreading day by day” is an old rotten joke. no mirzai can ever produce a proof of this spread. at the same time, they fail to realize that perpetuating this big lie puts them in league with mirza kazzab himself.
Indeed, Mirzology is no bigger than in the 1980s.
Try to stop our Community…. cant…because it is a Divine one….
Allah Almighty is protecting us since more than 100 years ago….and he will further one…why….because its his promise…
illusion of a frog in a well
Is Allah protecting the Bahais? The Roman Catholics? The Hindus? The Sikhs? The Mormons? The Moonies? The Scientologists? Please, wake up and stop chanting these thought-stoppping mantras. They make you sound really cultish.
I am one of those if the readers are in a state of disbelief…..
Just from my views and essays, quite a few have left Ahmadism. I get a new e-mail once every month…
only from those people zou get the email who are been kicked out
of the jamaat because of there stupidness that they misfurtuned in
ahmadiyyat
This is a lie and a fabrication. Sinners lie. Produce your proof if you are truthful or go somewhere else to spread your gossip. We don’t allow lies and gossip here. You only say stupid things like this because you are in a cult and can’t think for yourself. And you are scared.
if you read quran you will find there written that in the letter day
messiah will come back and he will reform the religiouns again to
that point were it startet … you do also believe that messiah will
come but you expact the one who was from bani israel (jesus the christ) who came for the christian people however….
muhammad saw said he will be from ‘sulman farzi’ people, we believe
he was hadhrat messiah maud (as) from qadian also the muhammad saw
said when he will come it will be shown to you eclipse that were
been seen in the world, i can write a lot of miracles that he performed
but the thing is if you really want to find the truth you have to seek for it and look in to it with sincerity and peacefully and dont forget to pray o mighty show me a sign were i can find peace and my hereafter will be in save hands….. your generation will pass and look for jesus but he will not come why would he he is not even sitting in the heaven in gods right hand site as you believe u do also believe when he will come he will be busy to kill all the pork and break the cross… how?
a man of your believe said if i see with my naked eyes jesus comming from heaven will not even than believe at him…hahaha?
you wish to come under one hand but that will never happen u can put
the your whole strength together not even than you can stop us in our
spreanding in the world
check our website http://www.alislam.org
have you ever asked anyone why he was been kicked out?
who is scared he backs up but we dont we are spredind day by day
try to stop us
True Islam has written again without answering my questions. I really think that you are either mentally disabled or you are avoiding me. Not asnwering questions is the dign of ahmadiyyat.
1. You wrote about the salman farsi commentary of WA Akhirreena wa minhum.
Did you watch Akber C on IQRA? He explained how MGA twisted this verse. I will write in brief, Muhammad (SAW) was trying to say that ev non-arabs could find Islam, even if IMAN was as high as the 7th heaven, even then, an outsider, like Salman Farsi could attain it. That is what was meant by our prophet. Your prophet, received a revelation in 1883 or so, in which he was made to change the translation of the verse to, “he will bring it back”, instead of “he will reach it”.
Then, in your utter stupidity, you spoke of the eclipses, the fairytale of eclipses occured in Dar-u-qutni. This was written by a shia imam. This was written about the shia mahdi who was supposed to re-appear. THIS IS NOT EVEN HADITH!!!!!!!
It seems that a blog about a bus campaign of just 100 buses, by a community of Ahmadis is digressing from the basic principle of ‘do they have the right to call themselves Muslim? ‘ or’ Speak for Muslims’ .
Yes, the non-Ahmadis / Ex-Ahmadi Muslims / Reverters there seems to have other aspects of the community they are unhappy with. Well, by all means , take it up with them. I cannot think of another community that spends more of its time and energy counter-arguing accusations or justifying their beliefs to mainly Muslims.
I certainly wont be drawn into them because the focus should be the topic and subject area of the blog.
Peacelover – the noble work of the muslims organisations are not targeting the masses of the West – at least i have not come across one. And that is what is needed ? The day to day interaction we all have with non-muslims , i am sure makes a difference, but it is up against a tidal wave of mass hysteria ( comparatively) so our work is cut out.
This type of mass media activity opens the door to help re-dress matters ( in some small way perhaps). It is welcomed by Government and would be welcomed from any Muslim Organisation too. Yes, this is the same Government that some Muslims Groups / Initiatives depend upon for funding….so that they can do their good work.
If in the UK this community has the legal right to exercise the claim to be Muslim… then so be it. Live with it or challenge it. Or better still , better it and make a bigger , more positive campaign that would pale this one into insignificance. Or …at least get someone or organisation TO speak with a single voice for the Muslims. … the ball is in your court, guys.
But lets clear this up. Ahmadis do not have a ‘hatred’ for Muslims. And main stream muslims get on and live comfortably with Ahmadis – especially in the UK , because , whether some like it or not or choose to agree or disagree with it, there is a respect for a strong case presented regarding finality of prophethood by Ahmadis.
If the case is that they are ‘frauds’, ‘corrupt’, or ‘liars’…. well, please take the same yardstick and vigor to all other muslims sects / groups.
element
this is NOT “a blog about a bus campaign of just 100 buses.” please take time to explore this website and you’ll discover a lot of material on many other themes.
while there always will be a need to expand dawa work in the west, there is no denying the fact that muslim organizations are trying to reach the masses. the work of cair in america and canada is a case in point. islamophobic reaction to their work is some measure of their success as is the growing number of converts to islam in west. have a look at one of the recent books: becoming muslim – western women’s conversion to islam by anna mansson mcginty (london, palgrave, 2008),
instead of armchair theorizing, keep an open mind about muslims and explore and apppreciate the ongoing work. better still, get involved in the community work and the so-called mirzai “initiative” will pale before your eyes.
nobody has called mirzais “fraud, corrupt, and liars.” but yes mirza kazzab is all of the above and the proofs are there for all to see except for the cultish disciples. a closed, centrally monitored, undemocratic organization for muslims is neither conceivable nor desirable. our beloved prophet regarded diversity among muslims a blessing. so do we.
element, i think you should check out the deen show, search it on youtube. in the uk, you have mullahs like hamza andreas and adam deen debating for the sake of allah. they can also be found on youtube. those are some examples of ghair ahmadi tabligh efforts for the west.
This is delusion, pure and simple. You really need to pull the wool away from your eyes. There is plenty of work going on. To see it, you need to take your head out of the sand. As for your position on Ahmadiyya, again, pure delusion.
Ok, The use of ‘Blog’ should be ‘article’ … the site covers other issues, where other points should be discussed.
Regarding activity on US, i cannot speak for….. but certainly in UK , there is no message being taken to the people here. YouTube video will only be found if those are seeking to find it. It is not taking the message TO the people. Putting it out there on a website / blog or video is not the point. It is the promotion of it.
Ahmadis define themselves as ‘Muslims’ on literature, does this offend in the same way as bus adverts?
the deen show is a television show that comes on cable in chicago i’m assuming (iunno, i’m canadian). what i do know about canada is that there’s a few cable channels about islam. a good one is let the quran speak.
the debates are not done on youtube, they’re only posted on youtube. i was only referring you to youtube to make it more convenient for you than to have to go to the actual debates. they’re much like the interfaith symposiums that happen in ahmadiyyah.
the reason ahmadis calling themselves muslims might offend ghair-ahmadis is because they feel that islam is being misrepresented by the ahmadis. how does taj hargey make you feel? doesn’t it annoy you that he feels he’s representing islam and the kuffar trust him?
Islam is the fastest growing religion in the UK, but Ahmadiyya has been static for decades. Discuss.
element
if you consider bus ads the only way of taking the message TO the people then i’m afraid you’re looking at this matter from a very narrow perspective. i do not deny its utility but it is a small tool for dawa. in my previous posts i’ve identified some of the uk-based entities that are engaged in dawa at all levels. i’ve also quoted even a book documenting the impact of that dawa upon western women. you can get substantial resources from the internet as well. again, it is a matter of opening your mind to see what muslims are doing in the uk and elsewhere. if you make an unsubstantiated claim that muslims are not promoting islam then what explains growing number of conversions? while muslims can provide evidence of those conversions through hundreds of mosques and other outlets can mirzais do the same? i seriously doubt it.
what is offending to muslims is the mirzai masquerade as believers in islam whereas they have erected a new “reflective” prophethood for themselves yet they claim islamic titles and identity. in case of bus ads they have dared to speak on behalf of muslims whereas they cannot, and must not.
The Muslims get huge representation in the UK from the MCB, which is the umbrella organisation that includes many other Muslim groups.
Something important needs to be understood here. The issue is that the Mirzais are advertising for “loyalty”. The point of the post was two-fold. One, that Mirzais should not fraudulently attempt to speak for Muslims and two, that Muslims don’t need to display “loyalty” in such a cheap and tacky way. We do it through our actions every day. A less obvious point is that we all know what kind of loyalty Ahmadiyya is after – the kind that any shill would be after.
Masha’allah, the work that Ahmadis are doing is indeed great and small works under taqwa bears great fruit.
These narrow minded Muslims are talking against this.
If the same work was done by mainstream muslims, they would be praising it! No doubt.
self-praise is self-serving. try to get out of this trap.
Actually, that is a completely fallacious comment. When “Muslims Against Sharia Law” and “Quilliam Foundation” and other government shill groups try to distort Islam into something that it isn’t, they don’t get support from the wider Muslim community. Of course, if you live your life in a Mirzai bubble, you would never know this as you do what you are told an read what you are told whilst pretending you are free.
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LOL. I tell you exactly what kind of reaction these bus adverts are getting from the general British public: a) point blank dismissal or b) ‘what the f*** are these pakis talking about? f***** love for all? bastards try to love me and i fucking show em’.
Nice one…
Kingston, 27th Jan 2010.
And loyalty? First word in this stupid campaign? How disgusting and shameful.
Shahid,
The MCB act on issues which are shared by ALL groups. So they can only act on the ‘lowest common denominator’ ( their words , not mine) across the organisations they represent. A consensus has to be achieved. That does hold them back considerably.
Also, dont for the slightest minute suggest that Ahmadi’s are:
‘.living in a bubble…. this as you do what you are told an read what you are told whilst pretending you are free.’
You obviously have not met any of the growing number of highly educated, forward thinking and intellectual Ahmadis. Perhaps you should meet with them first.
Peacelover – I never said Bus adverts were THE ONLY way. please check my statement. It is one mass media way to reach more people fast. and people who would not otherwise seek such a message.
Regarding your statement : ‘ in case of bus ads they have dared to speak on behalf of muslims whereas they cannot, and must not.’
No, lets be clear… .. they are claiming to be ‘Muslim’ ( their right in this country.. live with it, get over it, etc) and they do not claim to be speaking on behalf of ALL muslims. It is them, as a group of Muslims that stand / hold firm to values of ‘loyalty’, ‘freedom’ and ‘peace’. There is no ‘daring’ going on.
Findings – how can it be disgraceful to suggest ‘loyalty’ is an important value? The Quran teaches it, the followers of the Holy Prophet ( saw), during his life-time, lived up to it.
Interestingly, one consensus view held by the MCB is that Ahmadiyya is not Islam.
element
i am visiting london now and an ad on 100 red buses seems so insignificant an effort. so stop boasting about it as a mass media campaign. stop too scoring some brownie points here and there.
when mirzais write “muslims for…” what does it mean? do they specify? muslims are muslims everywhere. they don’t come with any prefix like “ahmadi” muslim. invariably their use of the word muslims implicate all muslims. and they certainly have no right to do that. this country? islam is not bound by geography. a muslim is a muslim in all corners of the world. so don’t fool yourself that mirzais can call themselves muslims in this country. how awfully mistaken you are in assuming islam was defined by geography! as to “loyalty” muslims know what mirzais mean by loyalty. this bunch of traitors to the muslim cause cannot talk of muslim loyalty. it is mirzai loyalty to the crown. period.
government shill groups… ah please. !
What conspiracy theories do you subscribe to?
If an organisation generates its own funding from the sacrifices of its members… why would it need to become a ‘shill’ ?
At least build a case against the Ahmadis on a solid premise … not this kind of ‘shot-gun’ approach of conspiracy theories that have been doing the rounds and been refuted time and time again. No cheap shots needed.
More to the point… if the UK Ahmadis are not growing as you say, , then why are you putting so much effort into all of this? your certainly not trying to save them from themselves by suggesting they are ‘living in a bubble, told what to do, what to read..’. wow!, that’s really going to win them over brother;)
Element:
I was an ahamdi for like 20+ years, I was never exposed to any other version of Islam. NEVER EVER. I was always told to steer clear of the mullahs…they were EVIL, like Dr. EVIL??? They were the Coke of Evil…
GET THE PICTURE???
WE CAN WHAT WE WILL DO–CIRCA 1883
rationalist
i dont care what iqra tv is showing they can broadcast anything but i say
unto you what we believe…..
it is written in dar qutini but the fact is that meassiah maud of qadian
claimed that these signs were been shown for me….. and allah says who ever say under my name that i have commendet him not to say i will cut his jaguler vine many people claimed god spoke to them
but the false one died.. but messiah maud succeded in his mission…..
a false person backs up he does not make nationes as there enemys
messiah maud as said openly to christian your god (jesus) has died…. said to the sikhs your baba nanak was a piest person and was a muslim….
made them also as there enemys…..
a lier backs up but he was alone living in a village were there was no security but he confronted everyone how? …. i tell you he was been quided by allah he protected him now he is still protecting and from a thiny village that voice did rise and is been spread in more than 190 countrys now and we are florishing day by day nations will split
there are also other reliqiouns who are succeding but no one said i came
from god and god told me this and that to say to the world except the prophets…
you dont have to be get angry come down and think and research…..
and think for a second jesus for whom you are waiting he is sitting in the heaven for more than 2000 years now when he will he be comeinmg?
the muslim ummah needs him now what is he doing up there watching us while the ummah is getting frostuated…. ? think again think and pray only one advice can i give you to pray to allah that he may quide you..
watch our community with sincierity…..
you can give me dalils and i can give you as well iam in peace but you dont you are getting angry and jealous…… why?
dont believe what iqra say or akbar or your mullah research your self…
changing religious or faith is not easy you need to have patients…..
1. I gave you info that Dar-e-qutni was not even a hadith book, it was a book by a shia imam. Also, science has proven that these eclipses happen every 22 years. I can give a reference if you need it.
2. MGA wrote that John the Baptist was assasinated. He was a prophet of allah, yet allah allowed the kafirs to cut his neck off. ANSWER THIS. My references are in another thread. If you need them, i can provide them.
3. Muslims are awaiting Esa Ibn Maryam to reform the planet, we are looking for Esa to solve all the problems of the world. At least this is my personal opinion based on hadith.
3.a. In Sahih Bukhari and Abu Daud it is written that: “money will be in so much abundance that the people will not want it”.
4. I am a calm and well spoken person. Dealing with ahmadis like you is very challenging endeavor. YOU DONT ANSWER QUESTIONS. As I have written over 10 times now. You english is horrible, your writing is terrible. And Masroor has stopped you guys from debating with us.
5. Lo NA LA HO, means, “they can attain”, not, “they will bring back”.
5.a. It is the fraud of ahmadiyyat that has twisted this hadith to make it mean what MGA needed it to mean.
5.b. Out of context vol. 4 will discuss this very topic.
6. Maybe all the prophets are alive in heaven, in fact, maybe all the martyrs, saleh and siddique are also alive in heaven. Isnt there a verse in the Quran that states that the martyrs never die?
7. Ahmadiyyat is a dying religion. Masroor has sealed your fate.
Keep dreaming
@peace
“keep dreaming” … about 220 million mirzais – otherwise prove it. laanat ullahi ala al-kazibeen.
so if you are waiting for that esa….. he was from bani israel…..
so you are expaecting a prophet from the israliets to come who should reform the people of ismaliests this ummah of (muhammad saw)…..
do you really believe that esa is alive by of God since more than 2000 years if he was a prophet from god…. otherwise you have to say also like the christians that he was the son of god…?
before you give such a statement think again… you are giving esa higher
states than prophet muhammad saw by saying that he died and your esa
is still alive….. and he will come muahmmad saw you consider he is buried
quran says to maryam and esa refering ‘kana yakulane taam’
they used to eat not anymore meaning they died… understand…..
hahahaha we are NOT dying open your eyes and do not get angry will not
give you anything….
iam a german sorry for my english.
watch chapter 21 verse 9. Holy quran .
dont take everything litrally prophets human animals they all come in this very world and die here as well….
or do you have seen anyone still be alive..?
you still showing your anger….
give me facts not statements from ordinery peoples….
@true islam (there is only one islam)
standard brain-dead mirzai regurgitation. stop making a mountain out of the mole. belief in the “second” advent is not a fundamental belief of muslims. it never was and will be. mirza kazzab qadiani himself admitted that fact. read his doublespeak in: Izala-e Auhaam 1891, p 171, RK 03 1984. this branching of israelites and ismailites too is an artificial one promoted by despicable mirzais just to buttress their statements that lack any historical or scholarly flavor. stay on your own track if you want to. but don’t tell muslims what to do.
You scribbled:
“you are giving esa higher states than prophet muhammad saw by saying that he died and your esa
is still alive….. and he will come muahmmad saw you consider he is buried”
This is just another silly argument that was given by MGA. MGA was aware of what the christian missionairies were saying, this was another ploy of these british land-stealers.
It’s really illogical, during the miraaj, the HP also saw john the baptist, Moses and other prophets of allah. Does that mean the John the Baptist also has a higher rank than Muhammad (saw)? I THINK NOT!
Ahmadiyyat has mnay holes in it. It is very easy to expose.
peacelover
iam not satisfied with you name as well ( peacelover) because
you dont use peacesull words….. NO NO…
certainly you have read that hadith …’who ever recited ‘lalilahai allah
muhammad dar rasululah’ he is a muslim….. no one in islam has the authority to say…. that you are not a muslim, you can say that you dont act like one muslim brother but you can not drive anyone out of islam but you people use these words …. pointing out to hadhrat mirza sahib with such words certainly your commiting ‘gunnah’…. what has he done to you on your part nothing so why do you use such language….
think you should learn first some manner…. how to talk to people….
with kindness….
wanna be peacelover….
if you say that muhammad saw saw john the baptist that means he is
also alive with the other prophets….?
Rationalist.
if you were told ‘ I was always told to steer clear of the mullahs…they were EVIL, like Dr. EVIL??? They were the Coke of Evil…’
….and you knew the motto of ‘love for all hatred for none’ was something you subscribed to for 20yrs. …did it not occur to you that it would be a huge contradiction?!
I’d love to know who taught you that, because it certainly goes against the grain. as for , ‘Coke of Evil..’ ….what are you talking about?
@ ELEMENT…
I realized that MGA and especially Mahmud Ahmad never uttered LOVE FOR ALL AND HATRED FOR NONE. I realized that Mirza Nasir Ahmad created this motto only when the situation of 1974 happened, in other words this was an attempt to pretend like this movement loved the world, which is a farce.
Mahmud Ahmad hated muslims intensely, he didnt want ahmadis to pray behind them nor did he want ahmadis to marry with them, EVEN THOUGH THE QURAN GIVES US THE APPROVAL TO MARRY ANY MUSLIM. Mahmud Ahmad wanted isolation. Mahmud Ahmad thought that the brits would be in India for a long time, he probably prayed for that. When the Brits left, ahmadiyyat was in trouble, Ahmadiyyat now had to answer to the muslims that they had called stupid so to speak.
The riots of on 1953/54 happened, Mahmud Ahmad was called into court—AND HE LIED.
^thats ahmadiyyat.
WE CAN WHAT WE WILL DO–CIRCA 1883
A famous Austin Powers movie is what I am referring too…. Dr. Evil was an evil millionaire who wished to take over the world, he called himself EVIL….
The goal of ahmadiyyat is global domination! Is it not?
WE CAN WHAT WE WILL DO–CIRCA 1883
Ratonalist ,.
Thank you for your comments.
Again you certainly don’t write as an ex- ahmadi . No Ahmadi would refer to the people he was part of for 20yrs in the tone you have. I know i certainly wouldnt and i know some lapsed Ahmadis certainly dont, either.
You would know the revelation of ‘delivering the message to the four corners of the world’ is hardly world domination or the promise of ‘ a large party of Islam’ , is hardly a promise of world domination. However, not a bad achievement so far , considering the obscurity and insignificance Qadian as a small town in Punjab and of a relatively reclusive and softly spoken man – just over 100yrs ago, before much of the wonders of communication.
Regarding Mahmood Ahmad Sb – the second Khalifa of the Ahmadi’s – again , you are confusing the critic and frustration that may have been expressed at the behavior of the Muslim leaders – as hatred. Especially considering the opposition against the community. As for being a liar… that is just your opinion, and it probably omits all other evidence submitted by him and again taken out of context.
As for such statements like; ‘ ….thought that the brits would be in India for a long time, he probably prayed for that. When the Brits left, ahmadiyyat was in trouble, Ahmadiyyat now had to answer to the muslims that they had called stupid so to speak.’
Funny how you use the word ‘probably’ . Just indicative of assumptions being made in your comments. Did you know the man himself. No.
Did you also omit the service given to the formation of Pakistan and its protect by Ahmadis living there? Funny how no muslim leader spoken out against Ahmadis doing such things for the muslims.
I would guess No Ahmadi likes the idea of not marrying within the brotherhood or sisterhood or for that matter, not being able to pray behind other muslims. But it is as a result of the rejection by by those who lead prayers, of the messiah that has come for them, and the labeling of them as Kafir or non -muslims.
If you were in favour of marrying Ahmadis to Non-Ahmadi Muslims… you are therefore suggesting that it would be ok for an Ahmadi Muslim to marry your sister. And for a Kafir that you reject as a muslim, to pray alongside you!
There is a contraction if you reject someone and turn them out of your brotherhood, you can hardly expect them to come knocking on your door.
Regarding; ‘…I realized that Mirza Nasir Ahmad created this motto only when the situation of 1974 happened, in other words this was an attempt to pretend like this movement loved the world, which is a farce.’.
How did you realise this? do you know in what context this motto arose? as for ‘pretend’ ?, ‘farce’ ? nice words just hollow if it cannot be substantiated.
hi, seems there are lots of bashings of the ahmadis here…i guess brother shahid when you were ahmadi your knowledge of deen is very limited, you don’t have any reason to say somebody prevented you from learning. it is your duty to learn about your deen. it is a good thing you said your realised you were on the wrong side. something i don’t understand about muslims in general is that why live in the western countries if they believe they are kafir, they benefit from their government just like you and the so called ahmadis. why do you blame them if they show loyalty to the goverment of the country they live. it doesn’t make sense.
@ peacelover,
Sorry to have disturbed your peace and hope the trip to London is good.
Please, Peacelover, do me the honour of not suggesting I think Islam is geographically bound. You know , as well as all readers do, that it is in ones personal belief in the Khalima. Sure, Muslim sects have had the opportunity to ban the Ahmadis from practicing – even from saying – ‘salaam’ – in some countries, but here in the UK, they cannot. If you feel there is mis-representation going on, wrt, terminology used, the legal framework/ regulatory bodies allows you to challenge that. By all means put your efforts into that.
Please see the definition of ‘mass media’ on wiki another other reputable source. Even if one bus was carrying the advert, it would be defined as ‘mass media’. And i use the term in its correct terminology. …my last bit of ‘Point Scoring’.;)
The point i do agree with you on, is despite it being 100 buses in and around busy central London, it is still a drop in the ocean, whether it is part of a concerted effort or a one-off. But , on a positive note to help bring this subject to a close …( we all have to get on with our daily lives), I think it is not a substitute for dawa, but can act to change the perceptions of non-muslims… especially in a UK election year, where the far right will, more than likely, exploit prejudices. I have come across alot of sound-bite info stating the level of preceptions/prejudice to Muslims in the UK and that is why , iam sure Islamophobia Watch is kept busy.
So, perhaps it lays down the gauntlet for other Muslims groups / organisations to trial and test similar types of activity….those who see it as tacky, or insignificant, then so be it. End.
element
your longish diatribe is no substitute for the questions raised in my last post. please, if you can, try to make a reasonable response to those points. and learn to read your own text for the implications of what you write. instead of justifying the mirzai red buses why don’t you open up to the broader muslim dawa for which enormous mass media impact is documented! i’m glad you verbalized the sub-text of the motivation for bus ads: elections. i knew that. just like the ads the uk mirzais are a drop in the ocean in this country, without legitimacy to speak on behalf of muslims. so you are going to make no dent. perhaps it is the resurgence of the inflated ego of the bhutto election that prompted mirzais to again jump into the ring. alas, they have not learned their lesson. your persistent threat to muslims to mount a legal challenge against mirzais may become a reality sooner than later. so don’t count on that horse.
@peacelover..
‘Longish diatribe’…wow.. i’ll take that as a complement seeing as you have opted to reply back to it.
I dont think you get my point.. .. i do not see the objective of this bus advertising as ‘dawa,’, so the issue of dawa in the broader ,document, context, Nobody has any issues with.
And no, it is not about the election, lets not be childish. It is appropriate it falls in the same year, and may deter islamophia …but if it continued after an election is held, would you be holding firm to your ‘conspiracy theory’ once more?
I prefer to see a legal challenge then a rant and endless conspiracy theories. Then at least that will put an end to this.
I think i have answered all your relevant questions ..relating to this bus campaign.. i am confused as to what more you specifically want related to this subject.
Have a nice day.
Endless conspiracy theories? Like being cast out of Islam is a big conspiracy by the big bad mullahs? Like being declared a non-Muslim minority by the Pakistan National Assembly was some big conspiracy theory? You can’t have your cake and eat it you know.
element
pretending to be a former mirzai and still defending mirzaism to the hilt? howzat! how conveniently you forget the name shaahid malik when it comes to his endorsement vis a vis elections.
you are right. the ad campaign was not dawa. mirzais don’t know and don’t do dawa. they engage in tabligh. hee hee.
there are no conspiracy theories against mirzais. rebut in the face of original scans from the “works” of mirza kazzab and then talk of conspiracy.
legal action could be mounted as britain does have a blasphemy law. but i’ll wait wider muslim wisdom to prevail to prevent mirzais from mocking islam and muslims.
by the way, yesterday, i drove nearly all over london. not a red bus with the slogan of mirzai loyalty for the crown. poor mirzais. they spent a fortune paying for those ads with little or no yield. carry on with your futile attempts against muslims and you are doomed to fail, INSHA ALLAH.
element
pretending to be a former mirzai and still defending mirzaism to the hilt? howzat! how conveniently you forget the name shaahid malik when it comes to his endorsement vis a vis elections.
you are right. the ad campaign was not dawa. mirzais don’t know and don’t do dawa. they engage in tabligh. hee hee.
there are no conspiracy theories against mirzais. rebut in the face of original scans from the “works” of mirza kazzab and then talk of conspiracy.
legal action could be mounted as britain does have a blasphemy law. but i’ll wait wider muslim wisdom to prevail to prevent mirzais from mocking islam and muslims.
by the way, yesterday, i drove nearly all over london. not a red bus with the slogan of mirzai loyalty for the crown. poor mirzais. they spent a fortune paying for those ads with little or no yield. carry on with your futile attempts against muslims and you are doomed to fail, INSHA ALLAH.
@ Peacelover,
Regarding your view on legal action and the statement;
‘ but i’ll wait wider muslim wisdom to prevail…’
Firstly, the threat of imminent legal action has very quickly receded to now a ‘possibility’ . and secondly you are banking on ‘ wider muslim wisdom’. What exactly is that? How long will you wait for it to appear? Who will pronounce it? I am really interested to know.
If it is the MCB… well, they have a tricky decision to make. If they go against it or challenge it… they might not get another knighthood for one of their executives. Tough political choice , me thinks.
So,… all the accusations Ahmadis in bed with UK Government pail into insignificance … if it is judged by how the MCB’s leadership behaved in backing the Labour Government post Iraq war.
And at least you have made one thing clear to me… the Ahmadis do have leadership.
element
all cults have “leadership” if at all it is thought to be a feather in the cap. i thought you knew that. as to your habit of picking on words, i can tell it in your face that legal action would be there. i’m nobody to decide but as a muslim, who cares for the unity of the ummah, my vote is for legal action against anyone, including mirzais of all colors and hues, who desecrate islamic icons; insult muslim feelings; and engage in blasphemy. i did not mention mcb anywhere in my posts. stop putting words into my mouth. it should be clear to you, once and for all, that the action of an individual muslim or a muslim entity does not exonerate mirza kazzab for his pledges of unqualified “loyalty” to the crown that he himself documented in 24 books/chapters. so stop dreaming about mirza kazzab being rehabilitated just because of assorted acts of muslims. he made this “loyalty” part and parcel of the mirzaism: read clause 4 of shraait bait in majmua ishtiharaat.
That’s interesting. Where is the leadership of the Lahoris? Is it Mirza Masroor? Or the Anwar-ul Islam Movement of Nigeria? Who is their leader? Or perhaps you’d like to point me to the leader of the Jama’at Ahmadiyya Al Mouslemeen? Or the Jamaat ul Sahih Al-Islam?
Leadership? Where? http://thecult.info/blog/2010/01/26/unity-in-islam-vs-ahmadiyya/