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	<title>Comments on: Mirza the Linguist</title>
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	<link>http://thecult.info/blog/2010/01/09/mirza-the-linguist/</link>
	<description>Inviting from Ahmadiyya to Islam</description>
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		<title>By: Izkov</title>
		<link>http://thecult.info/blog/2010/01/09/mirza-the-linguist/comment-page-1/#comment-14858</link>
		<dc:creator>Izkov</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Jan 2010 12:43:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thecult.info/blog/?p=323#comment-14858</guid>
		<description>Arabic is no doubt the mother of all languages but i think Mr Shahid you are anti Isalmic thats why you support a chrstian. Carry on with your foolishness you only write absurd articles based on your personal hate for us.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Arabic is no doubt the mother of all languages but i think Mr Shahid you are anti Isalmic thats why you support a chrstian. Carry on with your foolishness you only write absurd articles based on your personal hate for us.</p>
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		<title>By: Shahid</title>
		<link>http://thecult.info/blog/2010/01/09/mirza-the-linguist/comment-page-1/#comment-14625</link>
		<dc:creator>Shahid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Jan 2010 18:00:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thecult.info/blog/?p=323#comment-14625</guid>
		<description>He&#039;s clever, sure, but he&#039;s only using his cleverness to deceive. He&#039;s just using the bag of stock debating tricks from the Ahmadiyya pocket book. He dare not focus on Mirza, because his prophet is indefensible by any standard.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>He&#8217;s clever, sure, but he&#8217;s only using his cleverness to deceive. He&#8217;s just using the bag of stock debating tricks from the Ahmadiyya pocket book. He dare not focus on Mirza, because his prophet is indefensible by any standard.</p>
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		<title>By: Shahid</title>
		<link>http://thecult.info/blog/2010/01/09/mirza-the-linguist/comment-page-1/#comment-14624</link>
		<dc:creator>Shahid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Jan 2010 17:59:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thecult.info/blog/?p=323#comment-14624</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s no use Lutf. You are using shallow debating techniques without addressing the issue. You have answered none of my questions and you have singularly failed to defend your prophet&#039;s schoolboy reasoning. Look at the passage by Griswold. Address that. Stop playing games, it&#039;s a waste of time and Allah will ask you on the day of judgement why you were so keen on leading people astray and so disinterested in holding Mirza&#039;s nonsense to the light of reason.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s no use Lutf. You are using shallow debating techniques without addressing the issue. You have answered none of my questions and you have singularly failed to defend your prophet&#8217;s schoolboy reasoning. Look at the passage by Griswold. Address that. Stop playing games, it&#8217;s a waste of time and Allah will ask you on the day of judgement why you were so keen on leading people astray and so disinterested in holding Mirza&#8217;s nonsense to the light of reason.</p>
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		<title>By: rationalist</title>
		<link>http://thecult.info/blog/2010/01/09/mirza-the-linguist/comment-page-1/#comment-14622</link>
		<dc:creator>rationalist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Jan 2010 16:09:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thecult.info/blog/?p=323#comment-14622</guid>
		<description>@ lutf, you are a very clever man... you have made it a habit to avoid the issues, did Masroor teach you that?  

The arabic that was employed in the Quran is perfect.  Is that what you wanted to hear?  Does that solve the equation if MGA is true or not?  Is that the most important reason that you post here?  

Can you answer as to if Mahmud Ahmad actually raped the son of Misri?  Can you answer as to why Mahmud altered the rules of the anjuman just 1 month into his khilafat?  Can you answer as to why Mahmud married for the second time just  month into his khilafat?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ lutf, you are a very clever man&#8230; you have made it a habit to avoid the issues, did Masroor teach you that?  </p>
<p>The arabic that was employed in the Quran is perfect.  Is that what you wanted to hear?  Does that solve the equation if MGA is true or not?  Is that the most important reason that you post here?  </p>
<p>Can you answer as to if Mahmud Ahmad actually raped the son of Misri?  Can you answer as to why Mahmud altered the rules of the anjuman just 1 month into his khilafat?  Can you answer as to why Mahmud married for the second time just  month into his khilafat?</p>
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		<title>By: Junaid</title>
		<link>http://thecult.info/blog/2010/01/09/mirza-the-linguist/comment-page-1/#comment-14604</link>
		<dc:creator>Junaid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Jan 2010 01:17:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thecult.info/blog/?p=323#comment-14604</guid>
		<description>Well done Shahid Kamal, you are doing a great job. Qadianis are being held in a dark cave by their crooked leadership, all they need to do is turn around and look at the light behind them at the entrance of the cave and find their way out.
But their leaders who are uneducated in islamic sciences and are led by the shaytan, prevent the followers from studying and learning about true Islam.
why?
because they are bleeding them dry of their money.
wake up qadianis, you are in a cult and if you stay in it you will probably go to hell!
go on you tube and watch some really scholars like Shaykh Hamza Yusuf or Shaykh Abdul Hakim Murad you will see what real islamic scholars are, instead of that leader of your mafia.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well done Shahid Kamal, you are doing a great job. Qadianis are being held in a dark cave by their crooked leadership, all they need to do is turn around and look at the light behind them at the entrance of the cave and find their way out.<br />
But their leaders who are uneducated in islamic sciences and are led by the shaytan, prevent the followers from studying and learning about true Islam.<br />
why?<br />
because they are bleeding them dry of their money.<br />
wake up qadianis, you are in a cult and if you stay in it you will probably go to hell!<br />
go on you tube and watch some really scholars like Shaykh Hamza Yusuf or Shaykh Abdul Hakim Murad you will see what real islamic scholars are, instead of that leader of your mafia.</p>
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		<title>By: lutf</title>
		<link>http://thecult.info/blog/2010/01/09/mirza-the-linguist/comment-page-1/#comment-14600</link>
		<dc:creator>lutf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Jan 2010 00:03:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thecult.info/blog/?p=323#comment-14600</guid>
		<description>Since you have just equated universal grammar with the grammar taught in schools, I must ask you to read up on this idea a bit further. 

And you have yet to answer my question about the origin of languages.

If God taught Adam all the nouns, and Bayan, then what language was it? 

Of you can come clean and say that you don&#039;t believe God taught man how to speak. 

Besides, your colleagues on this website have expressed doubts about the quality of Arabic used in Quran.. 
http://thecult.info/blog/2009/12/01/out-of-context-vol-1/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Since you have just equated universal grammar with the grammar taught in schools, I must ask you to read up on this idea a bit further. </p>
<p>And you have yet to answer my question about the origin of languages.</p>
<p>If God taught Adam all the nouns, and Bayan, then what language was it? </p>
<p>Of you can come clean and say that you don&#8217;t believe God taught man how to speak. </p>
<p>Besides, your colleagues on this website have expressed doubts about the quality of Arabic used in Quran..<br />
<a href="http://thecult.info/blog/2009/12/01/out-of-context-vol-1/" rel="nofollow">http://thecult.info/blog/2009/12/01/out-of-context-vol-1/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Shahid</title>
		<link>http://thecult.info/blog/2010/01/09/mirza-the-linguist/comment-page-1/#comment-14594</link>
		<dc:creator>Shahid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Jan 2010 19:05:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thecult.info/blog/?p=323#comment-14594</guid>
		<description>Erm, no, it wasn&#039;t a &quot;proof&quot;. &quot;Proof&quot; has been given long before I was born my friend.

The Griswold quote shows two things:
1) That Mirza&#039;s spurious claim based on schoolboy reasoning caused him to be an embarrassment to all Indians in the face of the Christian missionary onslaught. It could potentially have been embarrassing to Muslims too, but as I said, Griswold is gracious enough to accept that Mirza was seen by his Muslim peers as a heretic. In this case, Muslims escaped the backlash, but in other cases, especially before Mirza became an out and out heretic, this was not the case. I hope you now realise through your studies that the missionary onslaught was met with far less vitriol and much more intelligence by Mirza&#039;s superior Muslim predecessors?

2) That in spite of my differences with Griswold on Islam, his observations on Mirza were for the most part, spot on. I&#039;m not so much holding up Mirza&#039;s claim to scrutiny as I am his methodology. I think you can see that, but you keep insisting on attacking the strawman. Mirza was out of his depth here, reasoning like a schoolboy. This was his style. On the one hand he would claim prophecy, but on the other, he would try to use his limited reason to back that all up. Nonsense and a giveaway clue to the fact that he was a charlatan.

One cannot read Mirza&#039;s &quot;reasoning&quot; on Arabic being the &quot;mother of all tongues&quot; and your (more intellectual) contortions to justify a potential universal grammar as proof for Mirza&#039;s claim.

Your scrambling about trying to equate an evolved language, which you admit now was not the first, therefore not the root, with an innate universal grammar is just fallacious and disingenuous.

Now, can I see you address some other points too please?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Erm, no, it wasn&#8217;t a &#8220;proof&#8221;. &#8220;Proof&#8221; has been given long before I was born my friend.</p>
<p>The Griswold quote shows two things:<br />
1) That Mirza&#8217;s spurious claim based on schoolboy reasoning caused him to be an embarrassment to all Indians in the face of the Christian missionary onslaught. It could potentially have been embarrassing to Muslims too, but as I said, Griswold is gracious enough to accept that Mirza was seen by his Muslim peers as a heretic. In this case, Muslims escaped the backlash, but in other cases, especially before Mirza became an out and out heretic, this was not the case. I hope you now realise through your studies that the missionary onslaught was met with far less vitriol and much more intelligence by Mirza&#8217;s superior Muslim predecessors?</p>
<p>2) That in spite of my differences with Griswold on Islam, his observations on Mirza were for the most part, spot on. I&#8217;m not so much holding up Mirza&#8217;s claim to scrutiny as I am his methodology. I think you can see that, but you keep insisting on attacking the strawman. Mirza was out of his depth here, reasoning like a schoolboy. This was his style. On the one hand he would claim prophecy, but on the other, he would try to use his limited reason to back that all up. Nonsense and a giveaway clue to the fact that he was a charlatan.</p>
<p>One cannot read Mirza&#8217;s &#8220;reasoning&#8221; on Arabic being the &#8220;mother of all tongues&#8221; and your (more intellectual) contortions to justify a potential universal grammar as proof for Mirza&#8217;s claim.</p>
<p>Your scrambling about trying to equate an evolved language, which you admit now was not the first, therefore not the root, with an innate universal grammar is just fallacious and disingenuous.</p>
<p>Now, can I see you address some other points too please?</p>
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		<title>By: lutf</title>
		<link>http://thecult.info/blog/2010/01/09/mirza-the-linguist/comment-page-1/#comment-14590</link>
		<dc:creator>lutf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Jan 2010 15:15:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thecult.info/blog/?p=323#comment-14590</guid>
		<description>Shahid, I am not playing a game here. You bring forward a &quot;proof&quot; that Ahmadiyya beliefs are wrong, and I try to answer you. Its simple. Now tell me one thing. When you posted the excerpt from the tract by Griswold, did you think that just the fact that a Christian scholar wrote it will qualify it as a &quot;proof&quot;. Or, yu thought that the arguments within the text had some truth in them?

I mistakenly took this post as an invitation to discuss the text itself and not some imaginary game you seem to be playing here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shahid, I am not playing a game here. You bring forward a &#8220;proof&#8221; that Ahmadiyya beliefs are wrong, and I try to answer you. Its simple. Now tell me one thing. When you posted the excerpt from the tract by Griswold, did you think that just the fact that a Christian scholar wrote it will qualify it as a &#8220;proof&#8221;. Or, yu thought that the arguments within the text had some truth in them?</p>
<p>I mistakenly took this post as an invitation to discuss the text itself and not some imaginary game you seem to be playing here.</p>
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		<title>By: Shahid</title>
		<link>http://thecult.info/blog/2010/01/09/mirza-the-linguist/comment-page-1/#comment-14586</link>
		<dc:creator>Shahid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Jan 2010 12:24:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thecult.info/blog/?p=323#comment-14586</guid>
		<description>This is getting boring Lutf. You are back to Mirzai debater tactic #78: &#039;When caught stealing, point at the person who caught you and cry &quot;thief!&quot;&#039;

You don&#039;t respond to any substantial point. You make weak attempts to address peripheral issues. You steer the discussion to obscure areas. When you realise you are losing, you resort to ad hominem. This has ever been your style. How can I respond to some of your cheap tactics? You say I support Griswold. I answered that. You say I am unimpressed with Arabic. That&#039;s a silly thing to say and takes the discussion nowhere. You indulge in petty insinuation. Why should I sink to that level? You confuse grammar with language and yet elsewhere, unbelievably, still defend &quot;we can what we will do&quot; despite my having proven it wrong grammatically. Well, English is not your first language, so that&#039;s not a surprise. Don&#039;t get me wrong, your English is about as good as mine, but a native speaker would just get it. So many places you take arguments to dead ends using debating gimmicks. I usually trusted you in the past and gave you the benefit of the doubt. In all these years you have not returned the sincerity. Why?

You&#039;re a good man. I know you are. I respect you, despite your odd lapse. I just don&#039;t get it. Why are you clinging so irrationally to this really quite obviously false person in the face of a mountain of evidence? Is it family? Social ties? Or is it the fortress you&#039;ve built to shield your ego? What? 

Why do you stay silent on all the tricky subjects? Please don&#039;t answer these questions publicly. They&#039;re rhetorical. I&#039;m asking because I care about you. Because I know you could be an asset to the ummah and I know that if you drop the hubris, you have the capacity to be a leader.

Look into your soul and face some of the tricky subjects, squarely. You know, the ones you&#039;ve been avoiding. Quit with your debating devices and engage properly. Use a different nickname for all I care.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is getting boring Lutf. You are back to Mirzai debater tactic #78: &#8216;When caught stealing, point at the person who caught you and cry &#8220;thief!&#8221;&#8216;</p>
<p>You don&#8217;t respond to any substantial point. You make weak attempts to address peripheral issues. You steer the discussion to obscure areas. When you realise you are losing, you resort to ad hominem. This has ever been your style. How can I respond to some of your cheap tactics? You say I support Griswold. I answered that. You say I am unimpressed with Arabic. That&#8217;s a silly thing to say and takes the discussion nowhere. You indulge in petty insinuation. Why should I sink to that level? You confuse grammar with language and yet elsewhere, unbelievably, still defend &#8220;we can what we will do&#8221; despite my having proven it wrong grammatically. Well, English is not your first language, so that&#8217;s not a surprise. Don&#8217;t get me wrong, your English is about as good as mine, but a native speaker would just get it. So many places you take arguments to dead ends using debating gimmicks. I usually trusted you in the past and gave you the benefit of the doubt. In all these years you have not returned the sincerity. Why?</p>
<p>You&#8217;re a good man. I know you are. I respect you, despite your odd lapse. I just don&#8217;t get it. Why are you clinging so irrationally to this really quite obviously false person in the face of a mountain of evidence? Is it family? Social ties? Or is it the fortress you&#8217;ve built to shield your ego? What? </p>
<p>Why do you stay silent on all the tricky subjects? Please don&#8217;t answer these questions publicly. They&#8217;re rhetorical. I&#8217;m asking because I care about you. Because I know you could be an asset to the ummah and I know that if you drop the hubris, you have the capacity to be a leader.</p>
<p>Look into your soul and face some of the tricky subjects, squarely. You know, the ones you&#8217;ve been avoiding. Quit with your debating devices and engage properly. Use a different nickname for all I care.</p>
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		<title>By: lutf</title>
		<link>http://thecult.info/blog/2010/01/09/mirza-the-linguist/comment-page-1/#comment-14581</link>
		<dc:creator>lutf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Jan 2010 09:50:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thecult.info/blog/?p=323#comment-14581</guid>
		<description>Interesting how you refuse to think about or respond to what I say and continue with your gimmicks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting how you refuse to think about or respond to what I say and continue with your gimmicks.</p>
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