Brother Fareed, if you are reading this, could you share your thoughts with us in light of the information provided?

Scientifically speaking, this argument is deficient because we don’t know all the laws of nature, so when we don’t know for sure what is in accordance with laws of nature and what is against the laws of nature.

Theologically speaking, God made these laws and God can change these laws so this is No argument.

In the 19564 munir court enquiry they asked Mahmud Ahmad if he had written such and such a thing and Mahmud responded that his diary writer was unexperienced at the time, the diary writer must have accidentally wrote something.

This was a total lie!

VEEEE CAN VWHAT VEE WILL DO–CIRCA 1885

Brother, are you aware that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad too believed that Hazrat Isa (AS) ascended to heaven physically? Are you also aware that he later labeled this belief shirk? This was 56 years later and 15 years after he had allegedly been assigned as a Prophet. Are you aware of the implications of his u-turn? By his own admission, he was commiting shirk for 56 years of his life including 15 years of alleged prophethood. We can provide references if you require.

Wouldn’t one think that splitting the moon is harder to explain than splitting a sea?

But, I don’t think that most Ahmadis (or even most people) have thought about the implications of a purely deterministic universe. When you said “God would change the weather patterns to make it rain”, the obvious question is what would be the cause of those weather patterns changing? What would be their physical cause?

Follow back the chain of causes and effects until you get to a first cause. If you believe its God, great, but then that God has no active hand in the universe.

My article was not about denying science. Its about your *interpretations* of science and how that affects what you believe is possible.

I do have a vague understanding of Mirza Sahib AS’s position on miracles. And now that I think about it, it makes a little more sense to me.

My main point is that if we (Ahmadis) do in fact believe that The holy Prophet PBUH performed miracles like the ones brought forward by Br. Tahir, then we have absolutely no right to ridicule the mainstream Muslim beliefs of the sea-splitting, the fire becoming cold, the miraculous virgin birth, and even the ascension to heaven (of both Muhammed SAW Isa AS). And this is something Ahmadis do. We use the belief of the ascension of Isa AS to try to create doubt in the minds of non-Ahmadis. Now i am not saying that Ahmadis should adopt these beliefs as well. I am saying, that in my own personal opinion, we have no right to mock Muslims for their beliefs in the physical ascension and return of Isa AS. And if we want to use the ascension of Isa AS and Muhammad SAW in discussion, we should do things like make reference to the Qu’ran and hadith. Not tell them they are wrong because it is “unscientific.”

” I don’t understand why Ahmadis believe that Isa AS’s ascension to heaven, the virgin birth, the sea splitting, fire cooling, the stick turning into a snake are ridiculous if we believe in miracles of Muhammad SAW. ”

You can read Braheen Ahmadiyya – Vol. 5. It explains the position of Mirza Sahib about miracles very well. You can read through first 100 pages to get an idea. I am not sure, but I do not think Mirza Sahib has written something that investigates the relationship between science and religious miracles in detail. He has looked at the issue from a very different and unique angle. He investigates the issue that what role the miracles are supposed to play in bringing people closer to God and it is very very interesting read.

You can definitely spend your time in thinking that whether God can or can not create a scenario like this: ” I am sitting in my room. An egg drops from the ceiling. But there is no dent in the ceiling. A chicken comes out of the egg with a hand note in its mouth. The hand note says: Fareed, You should not doubt the lifting of Esa bin Maryam. Then the chicken turns into an eagle and flies away”. And people of all faiths have reported to experience many paranormal activities in their lives that can not be explained by science ( at least what we know so far). But I think when we talk about Quranic and other religious miracles, the position that Mirza Sahib has explained in Braheen Ahmadiyya ,Vol. 5 looks to me a very convincing argument.

وَمِنْ آيَاتِهِ أَنْ تَقُومَ السَّمَاءُ وَالْأَرْضُ بِأَمْرِهِ ثُمَّ إِذَا دَعَاكُمْ دَعْوَةً مِنَ الْأَرْضِ إِذَا أَنْتُمْ تَخْرُجُونَ
And one of His signs is that the heaven and the earth subsist by His command, then when He calls you with a (single) call from out of the earth, lo! you come forth.

It is Allah (SWT) who lends all that we see its apparent firmness, literally, His Will alone holds the illusion together, at every moment in our experienced time.

There is a hint of the illusion provided by the strong nuclear force in 27:88:

وَتَرَى الْجِبَالَ تَحْسَبُهَا جَامِدَةً وَهِيَ تَمُرُّ مَرَّ السَّحَابِ صُنْعَ اللَّهِ الَّذِي أَتْقَنَ كُلَّ شَيْءٍ إِنَّهُ خَبِيرٌ بِمَا تَفْعَلُونَ
And you see the mountains, you think them to be solid, and they shall pass away as the passing away of the cloud– the handiwork of Allah Who has made every thing thoroughly; surely He is Aware of what you do.

If there were no strong nuclear force, you would be able to move through a mountain as if it were a cloud.

This is entirely my own theory, but I think (and the more learned scholars amongst us can correct me if I’m wrong) that the idea that it is Allah (SWT) who maintains our reality from moment to moment is the orthodox Islamic position, and my theory is that science will establish this, if it hasn’t already done so. If true, this totally validates the idea that law, including and especially the laws of physics, work purely through Allah’s Will, moment by perceived moment.