Shahid Kamal on Good Morning with Iqra

Without further ado, here is the first programme of its kind on Western television, where a revert to Islam from the Ahmadiyya cult was able to speak freely about his experiences. If the Ahmadiyya wants “freedom of religion”, then in the first instance, they should stop stealing Islam for themselves whilst denying it to Muslims and almost as importantly, they shouldn’t use bullying and smear tactics to shut down free speech. This is a free country. It works both ways here.

Peace unto those who follow the guidance.

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212 thoughts on “Shahid Kamal on Good Morning with Iqra

  1. Brother Shahid,
    God bless you for your efforts. You have rightly conveyed the message of Islam in a very educated manner.

  2. Shahid Kamal Ahmad:
    Your:”Shahid November 11, 2009 at 8:01 pm
    If you repeat this crazy talk, you will lose your rights to post on this blog. I’ve given you a perfectly good answer and you choose repeatedly to ignore it in the manner of someone who is truly irrational”

    Of course you can ONLY do this i.e. BAN ME, INSTEAD OF ANSWERING MY QUESTIONS. 4 or 5 years ago, you MISREPRESENTED AND DISTORTED the facts and accussed Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad sahib on forum when i pointed out your LIES, and started reminding you to answer my questions regarding refernces and context, WHICH YOU NEVER READ AS YOU CAN NOT READ URDU, instead YOU BEING A MODERATOR UNDER DIFFERENT NAME YOU BANNED ME.
    THIS IS ALL YOU CAN DO. THIS IS TYPICAL MODUS-OPRANDI OF MULLAH-MAFIA PEOPLE, who did the same thing in 1974 and held in SECRET trial of Ahmadis. And to this day all record is kept CONFIDENTIAL.

    • One very important point: I was never a moderator under a different name at I never banned you and I never had the authority, even as a moderator, to do this. I was only ever a moderator with my real name.

      You said: “MY HAND WILL BE ON YOUR NECK!!!”

      Do you have any idea how weird you sound?

  3. @rationalist
    Attacking any one’s physical description (real or imagined) and calling them derogatory names based on a despicable Hollywood character only highlights your immaturity.


    If you want to know, here are my answers. If you disagree with any, that is fine; just please don’t start the tirade of “typical qadiani mentality, cult mentality, against the Prophet (pbuh) etc etc. You are welcome to be specific to the belief which I think you will be as you have urself just advocated this policy in your earlier post, and show me why you disagree and then allow me the liberty to use my intellect to see if I agree with you. If I do not agree, let’s have the civility to leave it at that.

    “Is the LAM position your position?”

    In regards to the birth of Jesus, I agree with the LAM position.

    “1.Is it fair to then assume that you do not believe MGA to be a Prophet and anybody who claims he is would be a liar?”

    I do not believe HMGA to be a Prophet. However, that does not include the meaning of the word prophet simply as one who makes a prophecy (I am saying this as earlier you seemed to be including this meaning when saying that Muhammad (pbuh) was the last Prophet). By Prophet I mean one who is specifically appointed by Allah as a Prophet to convey Allah’s message (old or new) to mankind. If someone is called a Prophet on account of making a prophecy as per the dictionary meaning of the word prophet, but not on account of being appointed by Allah as such (as per Islamic Sharia meaning), then that is ok.

    I believe The Holy Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was the last and final Prophet of Allah and this is un-conditional, i.e, no Prophet (new or old) can come after the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh).

    “2.Do you believe in the immaculate conception of Eesa AS?”

    I have not formed a definitive belief on this as I have read various accounts; but so far have found the account of MMA (Maulana Muhammad Ali) most appealing. And for the record this is not on a whim but because of his arguments based on the Quran and a saying of The Prophet (pbuh). But frankly speaking I have not put a lot of thought on this or done more research, so cannot state my personal belief with confidence.

    “Do you believe the Prophet Eesa AS is alive and will return before the end of time?”

    I firmly believe that Prophet Isa AS has died and will not return to this earth ever.

    “Come let’s you and I try and find that pure form of Islam.”

    This is a big and noble statement. May Allah guide us all to this end, but I doubt it will happen overnight. In all honesty I do not know how long I am going to remain on this blog as a regular poster. My intent vis a vis my first post was simply to state the LAM position on the birth of Jesus as it had been asked for, it was not to put my own beliefs on trial. But I will try to remain engaged for as long as possible on the condition that you can challenge my beliefs but not question my intent.

    “I think a start would be if we relied on commentaries and tafsir by the most renowned scholars in this field such as Ibn Kathir amongst others.”

    I think we should use the commentaries of scholars (without specifically naming which to use and which not to as this might be another debate altogether), but with the condition that the ultimate test to settle any arising disputes is Allah and his Messenger (i.e. Sunnah / Hadith). Apart from Allah and his Messenger (pbuh), all other humans (no matter how ancient or renowned) can make mistakes. Thus the Quran and Hadith will be the ultimate test, with the Quran taking precedence over any Hadith for obvious reasons. If this is not acceptable to you then there is no point taking this discussion any further as it will yield no result.

  4. @Osman,

    Thank your for clarifying your position.

    I admire the fact that you were honest enough to do this although I am still a little baffled on your position with regards to MGA.

    Could you please just tell me what you believe MGA to be exactly. (please feel free to state that you would rather not say if you feel uncomfortable)

    Again I stress that these are not trick questions but your comments above in relation to MGA confused me and I would really appreciate a simple definitive answer.

    I think that aside it is best if we take each issue on it’s own and move on only after we have exhausted that one point.

    I suggest we start with Prophet Eesa AS being dead or alive to return before the end of time.

    I pick this because you state


    ‘I firmly believe that Prophet Isa AS has died and will not return to this earth ever.’


    This is the only point you have stated confidently, which leaves no room for doubt on my part as to where you stand.

    If we start with discussing this issue we can move on to the other points later inshallah.

    I agree that the Quran and Hadith should be the ultimate test although, please know that all things can not be deciphered purely from the Quran.

    Hadith have to be relied on to support the Quranic positions, as if we use just the Quran things can be misunderstood.

    One reinforces the other and I see no reason why we should differentiate between the two.

    However for the sake of authenticity I concede that we should rely only on Hadith that have been classed as Saheeh by the Scholars of Hadith and leave off weak or fabricated reports.

    Inshallah if we follow this methodology we will not find that one contradicts the other rather they will reinforce each other and assist the believers in understanding the message in the same way the Prophet PBUH and the earlier generations (who were the best of people) did.

    Now having stated all of that for the benefit of clarification let me begin inshallah.

    All Praise is due to Allah. We praise Him, and seek His help and forgiveness. We seek refuge in Allah, Most high, from the evils of our own selves and from our wicked deeds.

    Whomever Allah guides cannot be misguided, and whomever he leads astray cannot be guided.

    I testify that there is no true God worthy of being worshipped expect Allah, alone, without partner or associate.

    I further testify that Muhammad is His slave and Messenger هيلع للها ىلصملسو .May Allah’s salaah and salaam.

    O you who believe! Fear Allah [by doing all that he ordered and abstaining from all that He forbade] as He should be feared [obey Him, be thankful to Him, and remember Him always] and die not to expect in a state of Islam. [Surah Al Imran (3:102)]

    O mankind! Be dutiful to your Raab [Allah] who created you from a single person [Adam] and fro him [Adam] he created his wife [Eve], and from them both He created many men and women. And fear Allah through Whom you demand your mutual [rights] and [do not cut the relations of] the wombs [kind ship]. Surely, Allah is ever an All-watcher over you. [Surah An-Nisaa’ (4:1)]

    O you who believe! Keep your duty to Allah and fear Him, and speak [always] the truth. He will direct your to do righteous good deeds and will forgive your sins. And whosoever obeys Allah and His Messenger has indeed achieved a great success. [Surah Al-Ahzaab (33:70-71)]

    To proceed: The most truthful speech is that of Allah’s Book [the Qur’aan] and that the best of guidance is that of Muhammad (ملسو هيلع للها ىلص), The worst of evils are the muhdathaat (newly-invented matters [in the deen], and every innovated matter (in the deen) is a bid‘ah; every bid’ah is a dalaalah (misguidance), and every dalaalah is the Fire of Hell.

    Please tell me Dear Osman what you are basing your confident statement below on.


    ‘I firmly believe that Prophet Isa AS has died and will not return to this earth ever.’


    Please provide the Quranic references you have used, i.e. which ayah/s, which Tafsir/s, and which ahadith you have used to support this position.

    I look forward to your reply inshallah.

    • QUOTE
      “I agree that the Quran and Hadith should be the ultimate test although, please know that all things can not be deciphered purely from the Quran.

      Hadith have to be relied on to support the Quranic positions, as if we use just the Quran things can be misunderstood.

      One reinforces the other and I see no reason why we should differentiate between the two.”

      I would just like to clarify that while I agree that Hadith are necessary to understand Islam in totality, I belive that the primary source and the only source which Allah has explicitly promised to protect is the Quran. In fact I have heard (not read) a hadith (perhaps you know of it, or I will need to look up the reference) which says (my words of the meaning) that the Muslims should first look in the Quran, and if the matter is not resolved from there then look at the practice of the prophet (pbuh). In any case, in the event that a Hadith contradicts the Quran, I will give Quran the preference. In my understanding, it is not ok to twist the interpretation of the Quran to make it conform to a Hadith. I also believe that Quran itself is it’s best interpretation, meaning that if a certain matter, or related matters, are discussed in more than one place in the Quran, one part may explain the other. Also as the Quran itself states there are no discrepancies in it, no interpretation that contradicts another part of the Quran will be acceptable, unless both parts are interpreted in a manner that is consistent so that the contradiction is removed. Sorry I am in rush right now but think what I have said is logical. If you have issues with this, I will provide references from the Quran, as well as start on the topic of death of Hazrat Isa AS in a later post.

      Allah knows best.

      • I think it’s best not to get too caught up in this.

        My point of mentioning it was that if we say everything is explainable by using just the Quran then this would be an incorrect statement.

        I look forward to your next post.

  5. Rashid, your continual spamming on this post is becoming quite irritating. It has taken me 20 minutes just to read through the feed. Please have some consideration for other readers on this blog so that we can all enjoy the debate, and perhaps then, some people might take the time to read your comments too!! Thanks.

  6. I found this from a majlis khuddamul ahmadiyya newsletter that was sent to me, its GREAT:

    “Islam today is under intense media scrutiny. Commentators pen hundreds of articles a day, in print and on the Internet, that criticize Islam. Muslims sometimes resent these criticisms. Indeed, the reaction from Muslims can become especially
    severe, as with the the recent violent protests over the Danish caricatures of Prophet Muhammadsa and the Sudan teddy bear
    controversy. Unfortunately, violent reactions on the part of some Muslims further adverse stereotypes against Islam.”

    Today ahmadis are asking for muslims to respond in a civil manner towards the media when they curse muhammad. MGAQ didnt think so!!!! His brain was so screwed up that he wrote LANAAT 1000 times.

    Here is the link, you can find it on the right side

  7. @ osman

    I only act like this to mirror this guy’s behavior.

    This guy is an idiot and he is very ugly.

    We need humor on this site, DO YOU AGREE??


  8. Dear Usman,

    I hope you have received the references and also got a proof from writing of Mirza Sb that cursing someone a single time is an act of non-believer. One can imagine a lunatic act of writing a curse for a 1,000 times means what.

  9. Dear Osman,

    I hope you have received the references and also got a proof from writing of Mirza Sb that cursing someone a single time is an act of non-believer. One can imagine a lunatic act of writing a curse for a 1,000 times means what.

  10. When the danish cartoons came out, DID ANY MUSLIM WRITE LANAAT 1000 TIMES AS A PUNISHMENT???





  11. @findings November 12, 2009 at 11:04 am
    Rashid, your continual spamming on this post is becoming quite irritating.

    Finding, Shahid Kamal LIED about HMGA in Iqra appearnce. He accused HMGA. For last 4 DAYS, i am asking him to provide ref. HE IS CONSTANTLY DOGGING MY QUESTIONS. And you are accusing me of spamming!!! Is this your Justice??? Is this what your religion taught you??? Why don’t you tell Shahid to either produce evidence or RETRACT HIS ACCUSATION??? Is this you are going to reply to Allah SWT after YOU DIE???

    BTW, Shahid has deleted my today’s REMINDER # 2.
    Editor: Rashid, you have been warned repeatedly. Desist or you will be banned. Do not abuse your privilege!

    • My religion was Ahmadiyyat. LOL. So, what has it taught me Rashid?
      He never lied. He never misinterpreted anything. The simple fact of the matter is that you Ahmadis deliberately twist things, and then refuse to listen to what he really had to say. You will pick out hot words, and then cry wolf. Its not fair on Shahid to have to constantly justify himself, and then when he finally refuses, you jump on the ‘liar liar you cant prove anything’ bandwagon. Its getting real boring now…

  12. An Ahmadiyya follower wrote:

    ‘I firmly believe that Prophet Isa AS has died and will not return to this earth ever.’

    If this is what you believe, Then please explain why ‘MIRZA Ghulam’ himself said that he is second coming of ISA AS, and that he was pregnant for 9 months as MARIAM AS and then GOD turned him into ISA.

    You see the point now my brother?

  13. @ Editor AKA Shahid Kamal Ahmad:
    “Editor: Rashid, you have been warned repeatedly. Desist or you will be banned. Do not abuse your privilege!”

    Is my fair demand from you to provide reference and context of your accusation on HMGA a CRIME????

    Yes, you can always ban me. But you will NOT be able to stop me, on Day of Judgment, when InshAllah, MY HAND WILL BE ON YOUR THROAT!!!!
    Allah SWT is WATCHING!!!!
    Shahid remember: Allah SWT is NOT your relative!!!!

  14. Shahid Kamal LIED about HMGA in Iqra appearnce. He accused HMGA. For last 4 DAYS, i am asking him to provide ref.

    This is another blatant lie. You want to say Mirza did not curse a 1000 times and Shahid lied about it?

    For last 4 DAYS, i am asking him to provide ref.

    Reference has already been provided on this blog. You just need to open your eyes and read it.

  15. There are too many issues being raised at the same time. I think based on the bulk of the posts, we can stick to two issues: the death and return of Prophet Isa AS (as tabled by Ex-Ahmadi) and the 1,000 curses (which was the original issue). Let’s not make this a tennis match by hurling volleys back and forth and introducing new issues before the old ones have been settled as that will not achieve any purpose.

  16. And we wait for your opinion on lunatic act of writing the curse a 1000 times physically.

  17. Regarding 1,000 curses, the issue started because Rashid asked Shahid to provide the reference and the context, and I supported Rashid as that was the reasonable thing to do: provide evidence of the accusation. This is regardless of whether HMGA has written the material or not as the accusation is not on the act of writing per se, but on what the act of writing signifies (that HMGA is liar etc). Hence only that person can make the accusation who has actually read the writing in context; which is why Shahid was asked to provide evidence – to establish if he had the knowledge or not to make the accusation. It would have been a simple thing to do and really a lot of acrimony could have been avoided if Shahid had responded to this request in a reasonable manner. Instead a lot was said about “Qadiani Mentality” etc etc and all sorts of verdicts were passed on why proof is being asked for (despite repeated clarifications of the same). I cannot speak for Rashid, but I have found by experience that a lot of accusations are hurled at HMGA using his writings, by quoting him out of context, or deliberately mistranslating, or only telling half the story, or a combination of all of the above. This is similar to the technique of the enemies of Islam who quote Quranic verses out of context to show Islam supports terrorism. Now I am not saying right now that the 100 curses accusation is suffering from the same defects. What I am saying is that a lot of time is wasted proving false allegations as false, because HMGA wrote over 80 books, so there is no shortage of material to pick up quotes from and make up accusations. In my experience most of the time people have not actually read the quote within context before using it to prove a point against HMGA. They have just heard it from someone else, or picked it up from a website etc. Now if you are going to accuse someone of being a charlatan/liar etc etc based on any writing of his, then you had better read that writing in whole and not just one particular sentence in isolation. Or at least the accuser should have read and understood the few pages before and after the said quote before making the accusation. I think Shahid had not done so, and I suspect the other posters have not done so either. This is quite apparent from Shahid’s reluctance to provide the context and his eagerness to ban Rashid, as well as the comments on this issue by other posters. So first of all Shahid should have been honest enough to admit he has not read and understood this writing of HMGA himself so cannot provide the context. If I am wrong, and I could be as the evidence against Shahid is circumstantial but totally of his own making, then Shahid simply has say to as much and comply with the original request of Rashid.

    Now I can predict one response, that the context is not important as the very act of saying curse 1000 times is lunatic regardless of to whom the curse was aimed and why. Now we can discuss that, but if we agree that is the issue here. I can also predict that once discussion starts on this, a new twist would be added to the issue (past experience). So I propose that the following should be done in order of priority.
    1. Shahid should come clean regarding his knowledge about this particular writing of HMGA, and provide his understanding of HMGA’s words or say he does not know. This is important because it is his accusation that is the starting point of this whole debate.
    2. After that all other persons should clarify that have indeed themselves read this writing of HMGA, not necessarily the entire book, but at least the few pages before and after the quote.
    3. Then the accusers should pinpoint the first and most important reason why this can be used as a basis to show HMGA was a liar/charlatan/lunatic etc etc. Right now a number of reasons have been put forward, some even contradicting each other. It has been said it was ok to curse the person being cursed, but the manner was wrong. It has been said that it was not ok altogether as it went against the teaching of the Holy Prophet (pbuh), and it has been said that it was wrong because HMGA himself said cursing is wrong. I suggest we pick one (you decide which is most important), discuss that and then move on to the next. But whenever any quote of HMGA will be used, the user will have to clarify that he/she has read that quote in context him/her self. It will be a waste of time if I have to explain the context each time. Do bear in mind that there may be persons reading this discussion who have not read HMGA at all.

  18. Shahid Kamal, I am sad to see that you have LIED. You say Ahmadis do not go to Mecca. The fact is, every year many Ahmadis go to Mecca for Hajj and ‘Umra, and I know some who have been several times. You say Ahmadis pay chanda and not Zakaat. That is a LIE. Ahmadis pay Zakaat, and they gladly pay chanda as well. The Holy Prophet s.a. took Zakaat, but also repeatedly kept calling upon the Sahaba to give extra contributions to finance the activities of Islam. Why have you been blatantly lying about these issues? It seems you do not believe in a God Who will punish you for lying.

  19. Dear Osman,

    Thank you for your long long message. This is what we have read in books of Mirza Sb also. Whenever, an issue was raised, he would come up with number of conditions to fulfill before a discussion could be started. Now instead of replying to the problem you want Shahid to give an oath. Then others to give an oath. Earlier you wanted a reference and spent so many posts on looking for a reference you already knew. Moreover, you still don’t know the reason why it is wrong to write the word curse a 1000 times. Obviously the reasons have been presented above. But now you want all the accusers to first sit together and give a consensus which was the first and most important reason for objection. Otherwise, it is a waste of time for you to explain the context.

    Why all this.

    Why don’t you give a simple answer. When Mirza Sb said a believe cannot curse at all and at the second place he physically writes the curse a 1,000 times. Why such a big contradiction. Just give an answer – don’t put conditions.

    If a Christian comes and raises an issue against Quran, we listen to him and clear his concern. We don’t ask him to go and take course in Arabic and read 6 volumes of Ahadith and then give an oath and then get a consensus and then tell him that discussion with you is a waste of time.

    Please read your post again and think what are you doing.

  20. Dear new observor,

    I think I explained quite clearly why I have asked for what I have. That is why the post was long. If a christian comes to you repeatedly, making a false accusation about the Quran and he has not even read the Quran properly, and you again and again clarify the issue for him, then perhaps you will also one day ask him to please read the Quran carefully before making an accusation. I have not asked for any one to take any courses, only to read the context of the quote they present to argue thier point. So that the accusation is not frivolous and a waste of time.

    And you have not read my post carefully, I painstakinlgy explained the point of asking for a refernce was to ask it from the accuser, to find out if he had actually read the quote in context and had full knowledge of what he was talking about. Well lets just say we got our answer. Any how, I can see why it would be difficult to first reach a consesnus on the reason why 1000 curses show HMGA to be what he is being accused of. So I will just start from the begining.

  21. My offer of engaging in a debate with Osman is hereby withdrawn.

    He has done nothing but evaded questions, hid behind opinions of other people whilst witholding his own beliefs and opinions and continued with what Rashid has been doing in defending a charlatan and a liar,albeit in a more cunning and calculated manner.

    My sincere intention was to clear up some of his apparent confusion but alas I now get the feeling that no confusion exists and that he is indeed a staunch supporter of MGA. Allah knows best. If this is the case I pray Allah guides him to the truth.

    I end with the words of Allah most High most Great

    ‘Unto you your religion, and unto me my religion. ‘

    Al-Kafiroon verse 6

    • From “I look forward to your next post”, you have suddenly refused to engage in any discussion. Well whatever reasons you claim for this change of heart, if the reason that I am a staunch supporter of HMGA is important, then you are right I am a supporter of HMGA: but this was, I think, evident from the beginning. Anyway, as you seem to think any discussion with a HMGA supporter is a waste of time, then there is no point of me trying to defend or refute anything said here as that would be a waste of time for obvious reasons. As for me hiding behind other people’s opinions that makes no sense whatsoever. Obviously in matters of faith I rely on opinions of the learned scholars, and do not make up my own. But whatever opinion I rely on is my belief….but enough waste of time..mine and yours….I can see there is nothing I can contribute on this forum so I will no logner be seen here.

      • I have refused to engage in a discussion because you want to continue talking about why a lunatic wrote 1000 curses.

        I wanted to talk about fundamental flaws in relation to your beliefs such as the one which says Eesa AS has died despite Allah saying otherwise.

        However you want to start and go into great detail and debate about how Prophetic a liar was for YOU because he wrote curses.

        I don’t care about the context, the man was a liar, a liar , a liar.

        The conversation was over before it started.

        ‘Unto you your religion, and unto me my religion. ‘

        Al-Kafiroon verse 6

  22. I advise all other Muslim brothers not to waste too much time on this cult.

    The first ten days of Dhu’l-Hijjah, which Allaah has preferred over all other days of the year are almost upon us and it will be a crying shame if we waste these best of days in refuting non-muslims.

    I attach below a reminder for all Muslim brothers and sisters and pray that all that read the following article will benefit from it inshallah.

    Shahid you do a great job, but keep this work in exposing the cult in the context of what you are sacrificing in place of it. May Allah reward you for your efforts. Ameen.

    The Month of Dhul-Hijjah
    The Prophet (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) said, “The greatest day of the Hajj (Pilgrimage) is the Day of an-Nahr (Slaughtering).”

    By the Grace of Allaah we will soon start the month of Dhul-Hijjah (the month of Hajj or Pilgrimage) insh’Allah, in which Allaah has marked out, for both the pilgrims and the non-pilgrims, some very blessed days. So we shall mention here some of the virtues and rewardful acts that are connected to these blessed days.
    The first ten days of Dhul-Hijjah are the best and most virtuous days of the year. They are the days in which Allaah the Mighty and Majestic – most loves the doing of good deeds. About this the Prophet (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) said, “The best days in the world are the ten days.” [1]
    Imaam Ibnul-Qayyim (d.751H) – rahimahullaah – said, “Indeed, its days are the most excellent of all the days with Allaah. And it has been confirmed in Saheehul-Bukhaaree (2/382), from Ibn ’Abbaas (radiyallaahu ’anhumaa) who said, that Allaah’s Messenger (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) said, “There ore no days during which good deeds are more beloved to Allaah than these (ten) days.” He was then asked, ‘Not even jihaad in the path of Allaah?’ So he replied, “Not even jihaad in the path of Allaah, except for a person who goes out with his self and his wealth, and comes back with nothing.” And it is these ten days that Allaah has taken an oath by in His Book, by His saying,
    “By the Dawn and by the Ten Nights.” [Sooratul-Fajr 89:1-2]
    This is why it is recommended to increase in making takbeer (saying Allaahu akbar), tahleel (saying Laa ilaaha illallaah) and tamheed (saying Alhamdulillaah) during these days …”[2]
    The Prophet (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) said, “There are no days that are greater with Allaah, and in which good deeds are more beloved to Him, than these ten days. So increase in making tasbeeh (saying Subhaanallaah), tamheed, tahleel and takbeer, during them.”[3]
    The ninth day of Dhul-Hijjah is the day of ’Arafah, since it is on this day that the pilgrims gather at the mountain plain of ’Arafah, praying and supplicating to their Lord. It is mustahabb (highly recommended) for those who are not pilgrims to fast on this day, since the Prophet (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) was asked about fasting on the day of ’Arafah, so he said, “It expiates the sins of the past year and the coming year.” [4] Likewise, the Prophet (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) said, ‘There is no day on which Allaah frees people from the Fire more so than on the day of ’Arafah. He comes close to those (people standing on ’Arafah), and then He revels before His Angels saying, ‘What are these people seeking.” [5]
    Imaam at-Tirmidhee (d.275H) – rahimahullaah – said, “The People of Knowledge consider it recommended to fast on the day of ’Arafah, except for those at ’Arafah.” [6]
    The tenth day of Dhul-Hiijah is known as the day of an-Nahr (slaughtering), since it marks the ending of the major rites of Hajj (Pilgrimage), and commemorates the bounty and mercy of Allaah – the Most High – in that He gave His beloved Prophet Ibraaheem – ’alayhis-salaam – a ram to sacrifice in place of his firstborn son Ismaa’eel – ’alayhis-salaam. And out of the ten best days of the year, it is the day of an-Nahr which is the most excellent day of the year with Allaah.
    Shaykhul-Islaam Ibn Taymiyyah (d.728H) – rahimahullaah – said, “The most excellent day of the week is the day of Friday, by the agreement of the Scholars. And the most excellent day of the year is the day of an-Nahr. And some of them said that it is the day of ’Arafah. However, the first opinion is the correct one, since it is related in the Sunan collections that the Prophet (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) said, “The most excellent days with Allaah is the day of an-Nahr, then the day of al-Qarr (the day that the Muslims reside in Minaa).” [7]” [8]
    The Prophet (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) said, “The greatest day of the Hajj (Pilgrimage) is the Day of an-Nahr (Slaughtering).” [9]
    The day of an-Nahr is also known as ’Eedul-Adhaa (the Festivity of Sacrifice) and is one of the two major festivals that Allaah has granted to this Ummah. Anas (radiyallaahu ’anhu) said, ‘The Prophet (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) came to al-Madeenah and the people of al-Madeenah had – since the times of jaahiliyyah (Pre-lslaamic Ignorance) – two days which they marked out for play and amusement. So the Prophet (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) said, ‘I came to you, and you had two days of play and amusement in the times of jaahiliyyah. But Allaah has replaced them with something better for you: The day of al-Adhaa (sacrificing) and the day of al-Fitr (ending the Fast).” [10]
    The Prophet (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) also said, “The day of al-Fitr, and the day of an-Nahr, and the days of at-Tashreeq (the three days after an-Nahr) are our days of ’Eed (festivity); and they are days of eating and drinking.” [11]
    ’Eedul-Adhaa, is a day in which the Muslims slaughter a camel, cow, sheep or goat, in commemoration of the sacrifice of Ibraaheem – ’alayis-salaam. And this sacrifice is an obligation upon all those who have the means to do so – according to the most correct opinion of the Scholars. [12] The basis of this is the Prophet’s (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) saying, “One who has the ability to sacrifice, but chooses not to do so, should not approach our place of (’Eed) Prayer.” [13] And his (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) saying, “Whosoever sacrificed before the Prayer, then let him do so again. But whosoever has not sacrificed, then let him sacrifice.” [14] So this order refers to those who have the ability to do so – and Allaah knows best.
    As regards those who intends to sacrifice – normally the head of the household – then they are prohibited from cutting their hair or nails, starting from the first day of Dhul-Hijjah up until after the sacrifice. Allaah’s Messenger (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) said, “When the ten days start, and one of you intends to sacrifice, then let him not cut his hair or his nails.” [15]
    From the day of ’Arafah (the 9th of Dhul-Hijjah), up until the ’Asr Prayer on the thirteen day, are days in which the takbeeraat (saying Allaahu Akbar) should be said. Imaam al-Khattaabee (d.456H) – rahimahullaah – said, “The wisdom behind saying the takbeeraat in these days is that in the times of jaahiliyyah (pre-lslaamic ignorance), they used to slaughter for their tawaagheet (false objects of worship). So the takbeeraat were prescribed in order to indicate that the act of slaughtering is directed to Allaah alone, and by mentioning only His – the Mighty and Majestic – Name.” [16]
    Shaykhul-lslaam Ibn Taymiyyah – rahimahullaah – said, “All praise be to Allaah. The most correct saying concerning the takbeer – that which the majority of the Salaf (Pious Predecessors), and the Scholars from the Companions and Imaams were upon – is to begin making the takbeer from Fajr (dawn) on the day of ’Arafah, up until the last day of at-Tashreeq (the thirteenth of Dhul-Hijjah), after every Prayer.” [17]
    Ibn Abee Shaybah relates, “That ’Alee (radiyallaahu ’anhu) used to make the takbeer beginning after the Fajr Prayer on the day of ’Arafah, up until after the ’Asr Prayer on the last day of at-Tashreeq.” [18]
    As regards the actual wording of the takbeeraat, then nothing authentic has been related from the Prophet (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam). However, certain wordings have been authentically related from a group of Companions. From them:
    Ibn Mas’ood (radiyallaahu ’anhu) would say, “Allaah is great, Allaah is great. None has the right to be worshipped except Him. And Allaah is great, Allaah is great. And to Him belongs all praise. [Allaahu akbar, Allaahu akbar, Allaahu akbar, Laa ilaahaa illallaah, wallaahu akbar, Allaahu akbar wa lillaahil-hamd.]” [19]
    Ibn ’Abbaas (radiyallaahu ’anhu) said, “Allaah is great, Allaah is great, Allaah is great, and to Allaah belongs all praise. Allaah is greater and Sublime. Allaah is greater to what He has guided us to. [Allaahu akbar, Allaahu akbar, Allaahu akbar, wa lillaahil-hamd. Allaahu akbar wa ajalla. Allaahu akbar ’alaa maa hadaanaa.]” [20]
    Unfortunately, many Muslims have neglected the takbeer established from our Salaf (Pious Predecessors) and have instead resorted to additions which have no basis at all.
    Al-Haafidh Ibn Hajr (d.856H) – rahimahullaah – said, “Indeed, additions have been invented upon this day, which have no basis at all.” [21]
    And may Allaah have mercy upon the one who said,
    “Every good is in following the Salaf; And every evil is in the innovations of the late-comers.”
    And all praise is for Allaah, Lord of the worlds. And may Allaah extol and send the choicest blessings of peace upon our Leader, Muhammad, and upon his Family, his Companions, and all those who follow them.
    [1] Saheeh: Related by al-Bazzaar (1/234). It was authenticated by Shaykh al-Albaanee in Saheehul-Jaami’ (no. 1133).
    [2] Refer to Zaadul-Ma’aad (1/56).
    [3] Saheeh: Related by at-Tabaraanee in al-Kabeer (3/110/1) It was authenticated by al-Mundharee in at-Targheeb wat-Tarheeb (2/24).
    [4] Related by Muslim (no. 1162), from Aboo Qataadah (radiyallaahu ’anhu).
    [5] Related by Muslim (no. 1348), from ’Aa‘ishah (radiyallaahu ’anhaa).
    [6] Refer to Jaami’ut-Tirmidhee (3/377).
    [7] Saheeh: Related by Aboo Daawood (no. 1765), from ’Abdullaah Ibn Qart (radiyallaahu ’anhu). It was authenticated by al-Albaanee in Irwaa‘ul-Ghaleel (no. 2018).
    [8] Refer to Majmoo’ul-Fataawaa (25/288).
    [9] Saheeh: Related by Aboo Daawood (no. 1945), from Ibn ’Umar (radiyallaahu ’anhu). It was authenticated by al-Albaanee in al-lrwaa‘ (no. 1101).
    [10] Saheeh: Related by Ahmad (3/103).it was authenticated by al-Haafidh Ibn Hajr in Bulooghul-Maraam (no. 398).
    [11] Saheeh: Related by Ahmad (no. 1945), from ’Uqbah Ibn ’Aamir (radiyallaahu ’anhu). It was authenticated by al-Albaanee in Saheehul-Jaami’ (no. 8192).
    [12] As explained by Ibn Taymiyyah in Majmoo’ul-Fataawaa (23/162-164).
    [13] Hasan: Related by Ibn Maajah (no. 3123), from Aboo Hurayrah (radiyallaahu ’anhu). It was authenticated by Shaykh al-Albaanee in Takhreej Mushkilatul-Fiqr (no. 398).
    [14] Related by al-Bukhaaree (no. 5562) and Muslim (no. 1960), from Jundub Ibn ’Abdullaah al-Bajalee (radiyallaahu ’anhu).
    [15] Related by Muslim (no. 1977), from Umm Salamah (radiyallaahu ’anhaa).
    [16] Quoted from Fathul-Baaree (21/586).
    [17] Majmoo’ul-Fataawaa (24/220). However, what seems more correct is not to restrict the takbeeraat to being just after every Prayer, as al-Haafidh Ibn Hajr pointed out in Fathul-Baaree (21/587).
    [18] Related by Ibn Abee Shaybah in al-Musannaf (2/1/2). It was authenticated by al-Albaanee in al-lrwaa‘ (31/125).
    [19] Related by Ibn Abee Shaybah with an authentic chain of narration
    [20] Related by al-Bayhaqee (3/315) with an authentic chain of narration.

    [21] Fathul-Baaree (2/536).

    • Respected fellow Muslim, da`wah is an integral part of a Muslim’s duty. There are many Muslims who have their own “specialist subjects” – and this one is mine. Every soul is important. The Prophet (saw) continuously called people to Islam when he was commanded by Allah (SWT) to do so, insha’Allah, I would like to follow in his footsteps in that regard. Part of this calling is to safeguard Muslims too, those who have little awareness of this dangerous cult.

      • Mash’Allah may Allah grant you continued success in exposing this heretical cult.

        May Allah reward your efforts and increase you in your eemaan.

        May Allah guide all members of this cult to the truth. Ameen

  23. You still haven’t retracted what you wrongly stated onthe Iqra channel about Ahmadis not going to Mecca and not paying Zakaat. I hope you will stick to truth, Shahid Kamal. Even ONE lie casts an evil shadow on everything you say. By the way, since you say Ahmadis are not Muslims, I am curious to know the following: What is your definition of a Muslim? Is it the definition given by the consensus of ‘Ulama, or the definition given by the Holy Prophet Muhammad s.a. himself? And if you had to choose between the verdict of the ‘Ulama and that of the Prophet s.a., in the event that they happened to be conflicting, which one, as a Muslim, would you choose and which would you reject?

    • Watch it again and read my writings here and elsewhere. You are misinterpreting me and that is a waste of your time and mine.

  24. Peace4everynation, I have your answer.

    Shahid is too busy to play with you guys.

    1. Shahid meant that ahmadis dont generally go to mecca and do the HAJJ. This is a fact. Most ahmadis havent done this. The ahmadis that have done it have lied upon their entry into mecca.

    1.a. Jalsa Salana has been stressed more than hajj by the ahmadi ulama. This is a FACT. I dont understand how you guys dont get it!! Generally speaking, jalsa salana has more importance than hajj.

    2. You see, only muslims may enter mecca. Since ahmadis are considered non-muslim by the ulama of arabia, they are denied access to mecca. Just like christians and jews and hindus.

    2.a. The next ahmadi that goes to mecca, I DARE YOU TO MAKE THIS GUY TELL THE CITY OF ARABIA THAT HE IS AHMADI. He will be turned away.

    3. Ahmadis will-fully disclose that they are ahmadis when entering mecca. THATS HOW YOUR PEOPLE DO HAJJ. So, ahmadis are silent about their religious obligations. Essentially they lie to enter MECCA. Thats not right!

    3.a. my uncle did an umra under the guise that I listed above.

    4. Ahmadis can not pray behind a non-ahmadi imam. This poses a problem when doing an umra or hajj. Mirza Mahmud Ahmad when he went to Mecca in 1913 claimed that he read his prayers seperatly or something like that. I will elaborate on this story later.

    4.a. I will find the response from Mirza Mahmud Ahmad, it is in “aenas sadaqat”.

    5. As far as Zakat goes. Shahid is explaining how Chanda is stressed more than zakat in ahmadiyya circles. Zakaat isnt pursued by the ahmadi ulama as much as the various chandas.

    5.a. Some people may pay zakat. But, that is not what shahid is referring to. Shahid was speaking in general terms.

    5.b. I was an ahmadi for 25 years, I never paid zakat. I only paid chanda.

    • I concur with all of your points 100% my respected fellow Muslim. If anyone is looking for my response, it would be the same as yours, mashaAllah. May Allah (SWT) shower you and your family with Rahmah.

      • Shahid Kamal, I asked you the following, which has NOT been answered specifically:

        1. “You still haven’t retracted what you wrongly stated onthe Iqra channel about Ahmadis not going to Mecca and not paying Zakaat.”

        2. “By the way, since you say Ahmadis are not Muslims, I am curious to know the following: What is your definition of a Muslim? Is it the definition given by the consensus of ‘Ulama, or the definition given by the Holy Prophet Muhammad s.a. himself? And if you had to choose between the verdict of the ‘Ulama and that of the Prophet s.a., in the event that they happened to be conflicting, which one, as a Muslim, would you choose and which would you reject?”

        If what you meant by Mecca and Zakaat was that very few Ahmadis go to Mecca, and that Zakaat isn’t stressed as much as chanda is, in Ahmadi circles, then WHY did you say that THEY DON’T GO TO MECCA, and INSTEAD OF ZAKAAT THEY HAVE CHANDA??? These are totally different statements, and will be cruelly misleading for all innocent Muslims watching the programme. If you had stated on TV what Bro. Rationalist had said above, it would not have been as misleading. So are you going to retract the categorical, sweeping statement you made? Or will you stand your ground and say: When I say they DON’T, what I really mean is they RARELY DO..?

        Secondly, can you define a Muslim, please? Because, to my understanding, according to the Hadith in chapter 10 of the Sahih Al-Bukhari, the definition of the Holy Prophet Muhammad s.a. is:

        “No. 384. It is related that Anas ibn Malik said that the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, “Whoever prays our prayer and faces our qibla and eats what we slaughter, he is a Muslim and is under the protection of Allah and the protection of His Messenger. Do not act treacherously against Allah with respect to those under His protection.”

        We know and you know that Ahmadis pray the Salaah of Islam five times a day, facing the Ka’abah, the qiblah of Islam. And we eat what Muslims slaughter.

        Under the Holy Prophet Muhammad s.a.’s own deifnition – and who will dare add a single word to his definition? – we, of the Ahmadiyya Jama’at are, by the grace of Allah, MUSLIMS, and under the protection of Allah and His Messenger.

        Who will disobey the Holy Prophet s.a. and act treacherously against us, closing their eyes on the Holy Messenger s.a.’s clear definition, and preferring to listen to the ‘Ulama who say: Hang on, there is more to add to the Prophet’s definition such as: you have to believe that he is the last Prophet and that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad is an imposter??? These are the ‘Ulama who create fitna and division in the Ummah by turning the Ummah away from the Prophet s.a.’s own verdict and introducing extra conditions into it, thinking they know better than Hadhrat Rasoolullah s.a. himself.

        Astaghfirullah, thumma astaghfirullah. NEVER had Hadhrat Rasoolullah s.a. stated that to be a Muslim under Allah and His Messenger’s protection, one has to affirm that he is the last Prophet. This is a devious addition made by the ‘Ulama, to create division and fitna in the Ummah, as they have always done with their fatwas of Takfir against each other for centuries. No wonder the Holy Prophet s.a. said of them: “And their ‘Ulama will be the worst people under the firmament of heaven. From them fitna will emerge and it will return against them.” We keep on calling people back to Hadhrat Muhammad Al-Mustafa s.a.’s verdict, whereas the ‘Ulama turn Muslims AWAY from the Holy Prophet’s verdict.

        Now instead of playing evasive games by launching off another, “Yes but Mirza Ghulam Ahmad also said this, or did that…” Can you just answer me on these simple issues:

        1. Are you going to retract your sweeping and wrong generalisation about Ahmadis re: Mecca and Zakaat, when speaking in “general terms” can cruelly misrepresent a whole Jama’at in an evil way that Allah can never approve of?

        2. Are you going to tell me if the Holy Prophet s.a.’s decisive verdict is correct and sufficient, or will you tell me that the Holy Prophet s.a. had na’oodhubillah forgotten to include something crucial and that the ‘Ulama cleverly included the missing part in for him, making their verdict a better one than his?

        • In 38 years of Ahmadiyya, I never paid zakah, was never asked to, and nobody I ever knew ever paid zakah, nor was it ever mentioned by any of the seniors. The entire emphasis was on chanda. Always. Every Qadiani knows this. Every single one. You are lying if you pretend otherwise. Even Qadianis would silently be laughing at your audacity in pretending that chanda is not more important than zakah in Ahmadiyya.

          As for going to Mecca, what was the context of the question and what was the rhetorical device I was using? This nit-picking of yours, especially in light of many statements I have made to be absolutely clear, is wasting your time, my time, and the time of those reading. You have a parallel nation, and you know it. Why pretend otherwise? If I use rhetorical devices when the context is already clear, why argue like a stroppy teenager?

          As far as theology is concerned, Qadianism is not Islam. The debate has been done and dusted for over a hundred years.

          You keep persisting in time-wasting when your deen and soul is at stake. My mother went to Mecca, yet it is entirely true that only Muslims are allowed in the Haram al-Sharif. You have to deny your own prophet to go and then you cannot pray legitimately behind our imam. Interesting that the Shi`a prays behind our imam, the Ismai`ilis pray behind our imam, but Qadianis will not consider such a prayer valid. What does that make you and what does that make us?

          You eat our meat because you consider us and our women ahlekitab, not because you consider us Muslims. You claim Islam for yourselves, but your prophet and his son call us non-Muslims. Why do you persist in this treason and deception? You are an enemy to your own soul, as well as enemies of the Ummah.

          • We consider you ahle kitab? Where have you got this one from? Never in my born days have I heard such a thing in the Ahmadiyya Jama’at. You are a Muslim, Shahid, I have no doubt about it. No one in the Jama’at will consider you Ahle kitab. You are a Kafir of the Promised Messiah a.s. but none of those who claim to be Muslim is a Kafir of Islam. You can surely understand the difference between the two.

            But I see you cannot find the verdict of the Holy Prophet s.a. to be enough for you. It’s not enough that we Ahmadis pray the Salaah, turn to the Qiblah and eat Halal, is it? The Holy Prophet s.a.’s verdict quoted above is more than sufficient to declare Ahmadis to be Muslims. If anyone refuses to eat Halal, or refuses to turn to the Qiblah in prayer, or refuses to say his Salaah, such a one will indeed be declared definitely non-Muslim by the verdict of Hadhrat Rasoolullah s.a.

            But Ahmadis fulfil all three of the requirements that Allah’s Messenger s.a. laid down for all time to come. Yet, for you these requirements are clearly not sufficient. You want to add to the requirements chosen by Allah’s Messenger s.a. Astaghfirullah, Shahid, come to your senses. Even if it means you have to recant what you’ve maintained about Ahmadis all along, it will be better for you to face up to the condemnation of those who prefer the ‘Ulama’s invented interpretations, rather than to consider the requirements laid down for all time to come by the Holy Prophet Muhammad s.a. to be insufficient.

            Anyone who believes that Hadhrat Muhammad s.a. has precedence over all ‘Ulama will HAVE to accept that Ahmadis, by the very definition of Hadhrat Rasoolullah s.a., are Muslims. According to the “consensus of ‘Ulama”, Ahmadis are non-Muslims. Now is the time for you to choose, Shahid. I hope and pray you have the bravery and Imaan to hold firmly to Hadhrat Rasoolullah s.a.’s definitive definition and to let go of the additions made by the ‘Ulama of fitna.

          • I’m sorry you call this converstion “time-wasting”. Truth needs to be spoken. If you make incorrect statements about the Ahmadiyya Jama’at, they need to be corrected, and it matters not whether you personally change your views or not. Thanks for letting me express myself here.

            The fact is Zakaat has to be paid by people who are eligible for it, and it is their duty that they themselves make it a point to pay it. Are you and your fellows dutifully paying it every year now, if it is incumbent upon you? I hope so. I know that many Ahmadis DO pay their Zakaat, but Zakaat is not incumbent upon everyone, because not everyone has things to pay Zakaat from. No one in the Ahmadiyya Jama’at has EVER taught us that chanda is more important than Zakaat. They are different things.

            Yes, Qadianism is NOT Islam and it is NOT Ahmadiyya either. It is a term coined by enemies of the Ahmadiyya Jama’at. However, if you mean that the views and beliefs of the Ahmadiyya Jama’at are NOT Islam, then it is NOT Islam according to the “consensus of ‘Ulama”… the very same consensus according to which Ahmadis are NOT Muslims – even though Ahmadis ARE Muslims according to the HOLY PROPHET MUHAMMAD S.A.’S CATEGORICAL VERDICT. So, my dear, it has not been “done and dusted for over a hundred years” as you say, it has been DONE AND DUSTED FOR THE LAST 1400 YEARS. The verdict of Hahdrat Muhammad s.a. will stand, Insha Allah, until the end of time, even if thousands of ‘Ulama put forward a different opinion. We Ahmadis will always choose the verdict of Muhammad Rasoolullah s.a. Will you, Shahid?

            The matter of Imamat is not as simple as you put it, Shahid. Around the Muslim world, many Muslims refuse to pray behind others, and this has been going on for centuries. Some in Pakistan have been known to even wash their entire mosques every time Muslims of other sects had prayed in them before they did.

            For Ahmadis, the matter is clear. It is a matter of, as the Holy Prophet s.a. put it, “IMAMUKUM MINKUM”, your Imam will be from among yourselves. We cannot pray behind those who reject, slander or entertain severe doubts about an Imam sent by Allah. Whether other Muslims believe he is sent by Allah or not is immaterial. WE AHMADIS believe that he has been sent by ALLAH. No one can condemn us for refusing to pray behind people who abuse the Imam sent by God. We still say that they are MUSLIMS, but they are KAFIR or disbelievers OF THE IMAM MAHDI AND PROMISED MESSIAH. Or in other words that they are followers of Islam, but deniers of the Imam Mahdi and Promised Messiah sent by Allah. So, despite the fact that they disbelieve in the Imam Mahdi, they are STILL Muslims, if that is what they call themselves.

            We do not, as you affirm, consider Muslim women to be Ahle Kitab. That is an untruth. Shahid, I call you to the verdict of the Holy Prophet s.a. according to which we Ahmadis are, Alhamdulillah, Muslim. Beware his warning, where he said of those who call others Kafir, or disbelievers in Islam: “Whoever calls a man ‘kafir’ or says ‘O, enemy of Allah’, when he is not one, (the accusation) will rebound to him.” (Narrated by Al-Bukhari & Muslim)
            “A man does not call another as fasiq (corrupt) or kafir, except that he will be the apostate if the other is actually not.” (Narrated by Al-Bukhari)

            If you don’t want to accept Mirza Ghulam Ahmad as Imam Mahdi, that’s fine. But I call upon you to believe in the verdict of the Holy Prophet s.a. and to stop trying to prove us non-Muslims, citing consensuses of ‘Ulama and things which the Holy Prophet s.a. did not include in his own definition. Be satisfied with his definition, and stop this takfir of believers who are Muslim according to the Holy Messenger Muhammad s.a.

          • It is time-wasting that you focus on trivialities instead of the predicament you are in vis a vis your membership of a de facto cult.

            As far as the ahlekitab statement is concerned, you are either trying to deceive readers, or you are not aware of your own literature:

            “The fifth tenet that is binding upon my sect in this erase is that you should not give your daughters to non-Ahmadis. He who gives his daughter to a non-Ahmadi does not know what Ahmadiat is. Do you find non-Ahmadis giving their daughters to Hindus or Christians? Non-Ahmadis are, according to our faith Kafir, but they are better than you in this respect. In spite of being Kafirs themselves, they do not give their daughters to Kafirs but you, in spite of being Ahmadi, give your daughters to non-believers.
            (Malaika-tullah; by Mirza Bashir-ud-Din Mahmud)

            Please note the section in bold. This is your K2 remember.

            You talk about criteria of a Muslim, but you focus on some ahadith and reject others. This is disingenuous. How about “la nabi ba`di”? How tough is that one to understand? The theology debate has been done and dusted since Mirza Ghulam Ahmad proclaimed prophet-hood. For most of his life he thought a claimant would be a kaafir. Then he got bold and claimed it anyway.

            MGA himself held the same belief as mainstream Muslims in the early part of his preaching regarding Isa (as) – a belief which he later rejected and declared as shirk, and he then went on to claim prophethood. Has any prophet held beliefs of shirk, ever? No.

            He called his rejecters the “progeny of harlots”. You’re OK with your prophet calling my mother a harlot? Even though my mother is an Ahmadi? Or what of his first wife, who mothered his son, Mirza Fazal Ahmad, who also rejected his father’s claims. Was she a harlot too? Was MGA married to a harlot? What would that make him? Is that your belief?

            “Any person who believes in Moses but does not believe in Christ, or believes in Christ but does not believe in Muhammad or believes in Muhammad but does not believe in the Promised Messiah, is not only a Kafir, but he is a confirmed (Pakka) Kafir, and out of the fold of Islam.”
            (Kalimatul Fasl, By Mirza Bashir Ahmad Qadiani)

            So here is your “Moon of the Prophets”. the author of the “damning with faint praise” Seerat-ul-Mahdi telling you that I am not a Muslim. I am out of the fold of Islam according to your faith.

            “It is incumbent upon us that we should not regard non-Ahmadis as Muslims, nor should we offer prayers behind them, because according to our belief they deny one of the messengers of Allah. This is a matter of faith. None has any discretion in this.”
            (Anwar-e-Khilafat, by Mirza Mahmood Ahmad Qadiani)

            And here is your K2 again, making it clear to you that you should not regard me as a Muslim. Who are you to deny your khalifa? Now either you are trying to deceive the readers of this blog, or you are trying to deceive yourself.

            Finally, remind yourself that this discussion could never take place on the alislam forum! Think, before it’s too late.

          • @peaceforeverynation

            Does your false Prophet not agree with our ulama?

            “I have heard that some leading Ulama of this city Delhi are giving publicity to the allegation against me that I lay claim to prophethood. … I respectfully state to all these gentlemen that these allegations are an entire fabrication. I do not make a claim to prophethood. … After the Holy Prophet Muhammad, I consider anyone who claims prophethood and messengership to be a liar and unbeliever.”
            (Statement issued in Delhi, 2 October 1891. Majmu`a Ishtiharat, 1986 edition, vol. 1, pp. 230-231)

        • ‘eat what we slaughter’… says peace4everynation.

          what??? that quote you just presented here is completely invalid because YOU, as with all other ahmadis, will happily eat non-halal meat.

          you dont eat what ‘we slaughter’. nor do any other ahmadis. so technically, they not muslim if this quote is anything to go by!

  25. Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani lied about his prophecy and gave many false calims on Hazrat ISA AS. His followers are trying to defend him by telling even more bigger lies…!! God only knows when this madness will stop. But the bigger issue is these misguided people are trying to mislead the innocent and gullible people into believing that this is real Islam. At the same time they are trying to control those that are following this cult, by brainwashing and threatening them not to leave. It looks like not only they want to go to hell but to take more people to hell with them.

  26. Shahid Kamal, I would like to read YOUR answer, thank you.

    Rationalist, no offence to you.

  27. in the Beautiful Name of Allaah…

    The first word is (Surah 3:55) mutawaffeeka, the Qadianis say this means ‘to die’. The next word is Khalat (3:144) they say this means passed away – their argument is that Jesus passed away.

    with regards to “mutawaffeek” (we are) “taking your soul” and Allaah’s use of this word in describing what happened to ‘Eesaa ibn Maryan (‘alayhe as-Salaam), as found in Aali ‘Imraan verse 55…

    then this is based on the verb “tawaffaa yatawaffee tawaffiyan” which has a number of meanings, the most commonly used one means to “cause to die”. It may also mean “to take one’s soul during sleep” or even to “take someone/something firmly by force”

    the people differ with regards to the meaning of the word in the verse in relation to ‘eesaa ibn maryam:

    1- that it means Allaah took his soul, causing him to die. (christians and some astray claimants to islaam)

    2- that it means Allaah will take his soul, as there is the use of the conjuction “waaw” in the verse: “verily I am going to cause you to die and take you up to Me” the “and” here does not necessitate order, meaning: the verse means that Allaah has raised him up and He will cause him to die later, after sending him back in the end of time. the waaw in the arabic language does not necessitate order, like the faa’ USUALLY does, and the thumma ALWAYS does. This is something learned in one’s first few lessons in Arabic. To summarize this idea:

    waaw – may or may not indicate succession

    faa’ – usually indicates succession

    thumma – always indicates succession

    A clear example of the Qur’aanic usage of the “waaw” in a way that is not in the intended order would be “They have said: It is merely our worldly life, we die, and (waaw) we are brought to life” (45:24) This is the position of the kuffaar who denied the resurrection! So they meant: “We are brought to life (we live) and then after that we die”, they did not intend to affirm a resurrection after death! So the linguistic order of the two things is not intended, and there is no conjuction used that obliges succession.

    3- that it means that Allaah made him go into a deep sleep when He raised him up, as Allaah has referred to himself and the one who takes the souls (using the same root: yatawaffaa) when they sleep. Refer to Zumar:42, An’aam:60

    4- that it means that Allaah seized him sternly and raised him up without killing him or causing him to sleep (possible linguistically)

    Allaah has clarified the issue in a way that no Muslim may deny. “They (the Jews) DID NOT KILL HIM, nor did they crucify him… they had not killed him with certainty, INSTEAD ALLAAH RAISED HIM UP” (nisaa’:157-158)

    so in light of this second verse, one of the last three positions must be correct, and the first one is absolutely falsehood, and it is the way of ahlul-bid’ah to single out a text and focus on the linguistic meaning of a word to produce a meaning that contradicts another verse. Ahlus-Sunnah understand all of the Qur’aan and Sunnah as a single body of revelation that has no contradiction in it at all.

    As for the second verse Qadianis mention (3:144), then the word khalaa or khalat means to pass. It does not necessitate death, refer to 2:14, 2:76, 15:13, 3:137, 40:85, 48:23, 69:24. All these verse use the same verb “khalaa” and death is not at all intended. In fact if someone were to explain the word “khalat” in some of the verses as “died” they would be outside of Islaam, like in 40:85 and 48:23 the reference to Allaah’s sunnah with the people “khalat” has passed/preceded, can we say that Allaah’s sunnah in dealing with the people has DIED?!

    If we were to give in to the idea that the intended meaning of khalat with regards to the messengers is that they have died, then clearly this is general and there is no specific mention of ‘Eesaa, not any reason to believe that there can be no exception from the generality of the phrase.

    And again putting the verse in light of the other verses WE COULD NOT ACCEPT ANYONE’S UNDERSTANDING that ‘Eesaa has died, since ALLAH HIMSELF HAS NEGATED THIS.

    And Allaah knows best.

    I hope you have found some benefit in these words, and all praise is for Allaah, may He send His complete salaat and salaam upon the final Messenger.

    • If you look for user daggersoftruth, I think he has them in parts. Why watch in 9 parts when you can watch in one part here though?


    Taken from “Fast times at Qadian High(due 2011)” by the rationalist

    This is a clip from a book by Mirza Mahmud Ahmad called “Aenas Sadaqat(1922)”. 171/430

    page 157, feel free to read the previous 5 pages as well the preceding 5.

    ” In the year 1912, I went on pilgrimage to Mecca in company with Sayyid Abdul Muhyi Arab, visiting
    Egypt on our way. My maternal grandfather, Mir Nasir Nawab Sahib, also went on pilgrimage the same year. He went to Mecca direct from Qadian. We met at Jaddah, and from there journeyed together to Mecca. On the very first day at Mecca, while we were circumambulating the Kaaba, time came for the evening prayers. I wished to withdraw, but our way was barred and the service had already commenced. Mir Nasir Nawab Sahib told me that Hadrat Khalifatul Masihra had ordered that, while at Mecca, we might pray behind non-Ahmadi Imams. Upon this, I joined the service. Later on, when we were still in the precincts of the Kaaba, came the time for the night prayers, and we joined as before. When we returned to our residence, I said turning to Sayyid Abdul Muhyi Arab,”The prayers we offered were only to comply with the command of Hadrat Khalifatul Masihra, let us now offer our prayers for the sake of Allah. Such prayers cannot rightly be offered behind non-Ahmadi Imams.” We, then repeated both the services. The next day, I believe, we joined another service behind a non-Ahmadi Imam. But I began to feel that although we subsequently repeated the service, a certain weight was oppressing my mind, and I felt that if I continued like that, I should certainly fall ill. At last on the second day, I was compelled to speak on the subject to Sayyid Abdul Muhyi Arab. I said. “My regard for my grandfather prevents me from putting the question to him, but will you kindly inquire of him whether Hadrat Khalifatul Masih’s orders in this matter were given to him directly or was it that he learnt of them from a common report.” Upon inquiry, it transpired that there were no direct orders but that my grandfather had heard that some such orders had been given to some person. I thanked God for the news and from that time, in spite of objections from various quarters, we always offered our prayers in our own congregation. We were in Mecca for about 20 days. At all times we offered our prayers either in our own house or in the Kaaba in a congregation of our own. And it was a special favour of God that although, as a general rule, none save the few recognised sects were allowed to form a congregation within the quadrangle of the Kaaba, no one objected to our congregation; and it often happened that many latecomers joined us in our prayers and swelled our congregation to a considerable size. My grandfather felt apprehension lest his part in the matter might in future, prove a source of trouble. He, therefore, said that he would bring the question to the notice of Hadrat Khalifatul Masihra on his return to Qadian. When at last we returned, our friends one after another invited us to functions arranged to welcome us. Among others, Miyań Hamid Ali an old servant of the Promised Messiahas, who had attended upon him for 40 years invited us to tea. The guests included Hadrat Khalifatul Masihra, Mir Nasir Nawab Sahib, Sayyid Abdul Muhyi Arab and myself. One gentleman, Hakim Muhammad Umar, put the question to Hadrat Khalifatul Masihra. The latter replied that he had never given any fatwa of that kind, that his permission was given only to such people as were weak and timorous. Such people, if they found themselves begird, by non-Ahmadis, might perform their prayers behind non-Ahmadis, and repeat their prayers when they returned to their places. Thanks to God that my action thus accorded both with the fatwa of the Promised Messiahas and with the views of the Khalifa of the day.”

  29. Mirza Mahmud Ahmad wrote:

    “I wished to withdraw, but our way was barred and the service had already commenced.”

    He wanted to run away immediately. He would rather run and hide then pray behind a non-ahmadi muslim. This is the character here. It path was blocked, picture a football player with no where to go!

    This is disgusting behavior. This is what irreligious people do. Mahmud was irreligious. But, he wanted money,power and respect.

    Then he blames the prayer on his grandfather. This guy is very disgraceful. He wrote this stuff while arguing with Muhammad Ali on the topic of praying behind muslim imams.

    Muhammad Ali contended that ahmadis should be able to do so. Mahmud Ahmad disagreed! Muhammad Ali argued to Mahmud the fact that Mahmud had went and did hajj in 1912. Muhammad Ali wrote to Mahmud as such; (this is a summary)”didnt you pray behind a non-ahmadi during your recent hajj?”

    Mahmud Ahmad responded as listed above.

    In my honest opinion, Mahmud Ahmad has actually read his prayers behind the muslim imam. But, he lied about it when confronted on the topic. Muhammad Ali caught the liar in a double lie!!

    Very funny stuff!!!

  30. Most ahmadis have never heard of Kalimatul Fasl, Anwar i Khilafat, Qaul al Fasl, Nabi-ullak ka zahur, aenas sadaqat, haqiqat tun nubuwwat.

    All ahmadis should the relevant literature before entering into a debate on these matters.

    Also, read the books by Muhammad Ali in terms of the split, most of them are in english.

    Nasir Ahmad changed the entire face of ahamdiyyat in1974 when decalred “Love for All, hatred for none”.

    Before that and the 1954 inquiry ahmadis were very aggressive against muslims.

    The LAM were trying to connect with muslims, THAT FAILED!!

    Good boy Mahmud..wait for “Fast times at Qadian High”.

  31. Because the post that contained smears was removed and the user responsible banned, I have removed my comments in response also.

  32. @Peace4everynation:
    I know Shahid Kamal Ahmad made lots of FALSE statements regarding Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (HMGA) sahib. But since YOU also made TWO FALSE statements, that I know, in your replies, so to protect unbiased reader I want to point out YOUR FALSE statements.

    1: HMGA has written that statement of Kalma-Shahada, IN IT SELF, tells that Rasul Allah SAWS is the LAST prophet and NO new or old prophet can come after him. Period.
    2: Qadiani Jamaat members give excuse that the reason they do NOT offer prayers behind Imam who disrespects HMGA and call him Kafir. Well, you will agree with me that Lahore Ahmadiyya Movement (LAM) people do NOT disrespect HMGA and of course do NOT call him Kafir (nauzubilah). The question is: Why Qadiani Jamaat members do NOT offer prayer behind LAM imam??? The answer is simple: Because LAM does NOT consider HMGA to be a prophet!!!

  33. Mahmud was hard the unbelievers wasnt he. Well, he didnt have a job, he needed to make money somwhere or his family would starve.

    Didnt Nasir Ahmad go to Oxford? Business must have been gooood!

  34. God is coming BY His army.

    Ex-Qadianis Shahid and Farhan (in their YouTube videos and interview on Iqra TV) have rejected Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad claim of Mujjaddid (reformer) of 14th Islamic Hijra century. According Shahid and Farhan, since revelation “God is coming BY His army” is ungrammatical so they reject revelation and reject HMGA claim of divine appointment (Mujjaddid). Without going into details, I want to clarify that HMGA was NOT a prophet, so he was NOT bound by Holy Quran verse where Allah SWT ONLY does revelation in language of messenger. HMGA has also made this point, too.

    If people can read HMGA book ‘Haqiqat-ul-Wahy’ footnote on page 317, the point will be quite clear.
    Please read footnote in which HMGA says that he COULD have expressed a word or two of these English revelations incorrectly. He also says that God sometimes uses an expression from another era or different from current human usage.

    In main text on same page he writes (in my words) English is NOT his language. And Allah SWT has bestowed him with revelation in English so that English people can understand it.

    There can be other explanations as well.

    1. “By” is so close to “with” in meaning that it is not objectionable.
    You can say “I am sitting by my child”, meaning that you are sitting
    with your child.

    I quote below from a dictionary (at the meaning of the word “by” and capitalise what I want to highlight:

    In the neighborhood of; near or next to; not far from;
    close to; ALONG WITH; as, come and sit by me.
    [1913 Webster]

    2. “Coming by” is also an expression meaning “visiting”. “His army” may not mean who God is coming with, but who God is coming to see.
    There is a Christian hymn from the 1920s, “Kumbaya, my Lord”, which is translated as “Come by here, my Lord”. So it may mean that God (i.e. God’s help) will come to His army or the Ahmadiyya Jamaat.

    3. Similar to the above, “by” also conveys “by means of” (e.g. “He is coming by his car”). The meaning would be that God will be shown to the world by His army, i.e. through the Ahmadiyya Jamaat.

    4. It is also interesting to note that in Arabic in the Quran “bi” is used as meaning “with”.

    In 27:37 Solomon says: “so we shall certainly come to them with armies (bi-junud)”.

    “Moses came to you with clear arguments (bi-l-bayyinat)” 2:92

    Since “bi” so commonly in Arabic means “with” (as in Solomon coming “with armies”), it is conceivable that “by” in English may in the past have been used in the same way.


    • What a disgraceful attempt at deception.

      You forgot to mention the rest of the revelation that contained the actual mistake:

      “He is with you to kill enemy”

      Wriggle your way out of that one my friend.


  35. @Shahid November 19, 2009 at 10:52 pm

    Problems with Shahid Kamal.

    1) Shahid can NOT read Urdu. So UNABLE to read HMGA books in original text/ language.
    2) His source of knowledge on HMGA books are Anti-Ahmadiyya websites and their LIES and OUT OF CONTEXT and MISQUOTES.
    3) He verifies objections of opponents of HMGA by referring to a book NOT WRITTEN BY HMGA HIMSELF. He depends on SECONDARY SOURCES.
    4) Tadhkirah is NOT HMGA book. This is secondary source (and main source for Shahid) and has CREATED ALL THE MISINFORMATION and OBJECTIONS. As it takes HMGA quotes OUT OF CONTEXT. Does NOT give the whole context and HMGA own explanations. (Even translator of this book, Sir Zafaullah Khan, from Urdu to English, REALIZED his MISTAKE of translating it. He acknowledged his mistake to Maulana Noor Ud Din son Abdul Mannan Omar sahib. Mannan sahib personally told me).
    5) When Shahid’s mistake is pointed out, instead of acknowledging it, he JUMPS to another objection. As I said, all these objections originate by taking HMGA quotes OUT OF CONTEXT. There are over 85 HMGA books. Thus these objections by Shahid and other opponents of HMGA will NEVER end.
    1- Learn Urdu and read HMGA books YOURSELF.
    2- Wait and hold your objections until you read HMGA books translation become available on Lahore Ahmadiyya Movement headquarters website.
    3- Read HMGA books English translations that are already available on LAM official website.

    Your: You forgot to mention the rest of the revelation that contained the actual mistake:
    “He is with you to kill enemy”
    Wriggle your way out of that one my friend.

    If you had read ‘Haqiqat-ul-Wahy’ pages, you would NOT have made above comments.
    You did NOT acknowledge at least reply to one revelation.

    Your: What a disgraceful attempt at deception.

    Shahid, I was trying to help you i.e. teach you and remove your MISUNDERSTANDING, giving you benefit of doubt, OUT OF SYMPATHY, as you can NOT read Urdu.
    I can write at least same strong language that you used. But then you will delete my post.

    I have suggested you what to do IF YOU HONESTLY want to know/ read writings of HMGA.
    I have done my job. I don’t have time to answer your out of context objections/ accusations. You will be ANSWERING to Allah SWT for NOT performing your responsibilities and just accusing HMGA.

    • Please stop using caps. This is your second warning.

      I asked you a simple question. You have accused me of taking something out of context and in your accusation, you stripped the context of my statements to suit you.

      Who said I can’t read Urdu? I just can’t read it very well, but I’ve read Mirza Sahib’s English revelations from the original Urdu – see my video “Words of Satan”

      You are very silent on brother Akber’s translation of Braheen-e-Ahmadiyya where Mirza Sahib says that dead flies can be resurrected with salt and ash. And I’ve seen that in context.

      No contextualising justifies Mirza Ghulam Ahmad calling the people he doesn’t like “progeny of prostitute”.

      No contextualising changes the fact that Mirza Sahib conducted wholesale plagiarism of “Maqaamaat al-Hareeri” to try and impress people with his presumed mastery of Arabic.

      No contextualising changes the fact that Mirza Sahib did claim English revelations and that the grammar was nonsensical in any era.

      Your arguments are so weak that you need to continually type in upper case to try and shout people down. It doesn’t work. Stop doing it or your next message will just be deleted.

      Now, your suggestions are all good and well, but I have read Mirza Sahib’s translated books by the Ahmadiyya movement, and by other Muslims. Nothing convinces me that the man was any more than a charlatan. At best, self-deceived and at worst, a conniving atheist trickster who knew exactly what he was doing.

      I am open to truth and that is precisely why I reject Mirza Sahib’s work. He is too confusing. He brought nothing new, he brought nothing original, he reformed nothing, changed nothing and used lots of bad language and his prophecies flopped on every occasion. He backtracked when caught out and his followers either left him or split.

      I urge you to come to your senses.

  36. Well don Bro Shahid!
    We hope you will produce more programmes like this in future for our information.
    Thnk You and Thanks to IQRA TV for airring these programmes.
    Masha’allah great job!

  37. Pingback: Ahmadiyya videos back on-line! | Ahmadiyya

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