You will often hear the phrase “Intellectual Bankruptcy” coined by those in the know about the Ahmadiyya cult. That is not to say that there aren’t intellectuals in the movement of course. It is a term used to describe the manoeuvres a cult has to make in order to repress the cognitive dissonance that is ever-present. And now, yet another example of a form of intellectual bankruptcy and cowardice has been displayed by the frightened leadership.
For years, many of us in the Ahmadiyya awareness network have been asking the quite legitimate question: “Why don’t the Ahmadis have free speech?” You see, we have forums, like the trend-setting and hugely influential ahmedi.org, once a powerhouse and still a lively and interesting forum, and thecult.info as well as a few others, where Ahmadis have had greater freedom of speech than in their own community! The recent live programme on Iqra TV that featured “Anwar Mirza” was testimony to the openness of the Muslims compared to the closed cult of the Ahmadiyya. MTA could never invite a top Muslim scholar onto their show, they’d lose half of their membership overnight!
Try expressing a displeasing idea in the Ahmadiyya community as a member and you would soon find yourself ostracised, boycotted and expelled; whereas Muslims have given Ahmadis freedom of speech, yet Ahmadis don’t ponder this.
The first example I saw of an on-line community was the Yahoo forum run by irshad.org – reading that forum went a long way towards convincing me that Islam was not the barbaric religion that Ahmadiyya had scared me into believing it was.
So it was with some surprise that I learned today that the Ahmadiyya has opened up a new forum – at forums.alislam.org
(They did have a kind of forum before, but it was quickly closed down.)
Before you all go rushing off there, you should know that I laughed wryly when I learned that membership is by invitation only. Well that rules out debate then. And boy did I laugh when I noticed that they have avoided the subjects of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad and Ahmadiyya. In fact, so careful are they, that their disclaimer reads: “Views expressed in these forums are not necessarily the beliefs of the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community.” -
Ahmadis, when will you learn? The leadership doesn’t want you to know the truth about your founder because you would become disillusioned and leave. They keep changing references, they keep deleting offending segments, anything to try and keep you trapped in their web of lies!
Come to Islam brothers and sisters, join us on the straight path. Leave the cult behind.
HAVE THEY GONE MAD??
The average ahmadi doesnt know much about ahmadiyyat at all.
We were all told to study philosophy of the teachings of Islam and Jesus in India. That was it!!!
shahid, many thanks for this. the homepage of the mirzai website does no give a clue about the forum. it has the distinction of being among the few “secure” fora on the net! well, i went in to apply and found out that it was by invitation only. but one can apply for the invitation. what the heck, i’ve sent in my application for invitation for registration. howzat!
As a member of the ahmadiyya comunity i have always been asked to study the Quran!
As for knowing the history of the founder i do study such books!
You have been illinformed or you are certainly lying(astaghfirullah)
I can’t post this any where else!
newobserver,
If you think that greatness of prophets is proportional to the number of followers then you are mistaken!
Then Jesus(as) now is greater than Muhammad(saw) according to your understanding since these days there are more followers of Jesus(as).
What matters is the quality of the followers and the rigteousness and piety of the Prophet! Since the Quran claims along the lines that the only thing that God cares about is peity!
That quote that you stated is only used to repel against the christian attacks on the Holy Prophet(saw).
If he did imply that Jesus(as) was inferioir then why would he say this:
“Claiming as I do, that I am the Promised Messiah and that I bear a resemblance to Hazrat Isa, peace be on him, every one would understand that were I to revile him, I would not claim any resemblance to him, for by reviling him, I would confess that I myself was vicious.” (Announcement of 27 December 1898)
Moreover he has explicitly stated his love for Jesus(as):
1. There is no doubt that Hazrat Masih, peace be on him, was a true Prophet. (Arbain, No.2)
2. I call Allah, the Glorious, to witness that in the revelation vouchsafed to me He has dearly informed me that Hazrat Masih, peace be on him, was without a doubt, a human being, like other human beings; that he was a true Prophet of God and was His Messenger and His Elect. (Hujjatul Islam, p. 9)
3. It is my belief that the Messiah was a true Prophet and Messenger and was beloved of God but was not God. (Hujjatu1 Islam, p. 3)
4. Hazrat Isa, peace be on him, was, no doubt, a beloved Prophet of God and possessed the highest qualities. He was virtuous and a chosen one and had communion with God but was not God. (Announcement of 22 March 1877)
5. I have been commissioned by God Almighty to profess that Hazrat Isa, peace be on him, was a true and pure and righteous Prophet of God and to believe in his prophethood. (Ayyamus Solh, first title page)
6. The Messiah was an accepted one of God and was beloved of Him. Those who utter calumnies against him are wicked. (Ijaz Abmad, p.15)
7. I state on oath that I bear that true love towards the Messiah which you do not possess and that you have not available to you the light with which I recognize him. There is no doubt that he was a dear and chosen Prophet of God. (Dawate Haq, attached to Haqeeqatul Wahi)
MOST SURELY YOUR CONCLUSION IS ILLINFORMED AND WITHOUT ANY POWERFUL ARGUMENTS.
as for jesus’s death:
Evidence on Quran:
http://www.alislam.org/library/links/Jesus_death/1_Quran.html
more evidence in quran:
http://www.alislam.org/library/links/Jesus_death/2_Quran.html
evidence from hadith:
http://www.alislam.org/library/links/Jesus_death/3_Hadith.html
I can’t post this any where else!
newobserver,
If you think that greatness of prophets is proportional to the number of followers then you are mistaken!
Then Jesus(as) now is greater than Muhammad(saw) according to your understanding since these days there are more followers of Jesus(as).
What matters is the quality of the followers and the rigteousness and piety of the Prophet! Since the Quran claims along the lines that the only thing that God cares about is peity!
That quote that you stated is only used to repel against the christian attacks on the Holy Prophet(saw).
If he did imply that Jesus(as) was inferioir then why would he say this:
“Claiming as I do, that I am the Promised Messiah and that I bear a resemblance to Hazrat Isa, peace be on him, every one would understand that were I to revile him, I would not claim any resemblance to him, for by reviling him, I would confess that I myself was vicious.” (Announcement of 27 December 1898)
Moreover he has explicitly stated his love for Jesus(as):
1. There is no doubt that Hazrat Masih, peace be on him, was a true Prophet. (Arbain, No.2)
2. I call Allah, the Glorious, to witness that in the revelation vouchsafed to me He has dearly informed me that Hazrat Masih, peace be on him, was without a doubt, a human being, like other human beings; that he was a true Prophet of God and was His Messenger and His Elect. (Hujjatul Islam, p. 9)
3. It is my belief that the Messiah was a true Prophet and Messenger and was beloved of God but was not God. (Hujjatu1 Islam, p. 3)
4. Hazrat Isa, peace be on him, was, no doubt, a beloved Prophet of God and possessed the highest qualities. He was virtuous and a chosen one and had communion with God but was not God. (Announcement of 22 March 1877)
5. I have been commissioned by God Almighty to profess that Hazrat Isa, peace be on him, was a true and pure and righteous Prophet of God and to believe in his prophethood. (Ayyamus Solh, first title page)
6. The Messiah was an accepted one of God and was beloved of Him. Those who utter calumnies against him are wicked. (Ijaz Abmad, p.15)
7. I state on oath that I bear that true love towards the Messiah which you do not possess and that you have not available to you the light with which I recognize him. There is no doubt that he was a dear and chosen Prophet of God. (Dawate Haq, attached to Haqeeqatul Wahi)
MOST SURELY YOUR CONCLUSION IS ILLINFORMED AND WITHOUT ANY POWERFUL ARGUMENTS.
as for jesus’s death:
Evidence on Quran:
alislam.org/library/links/Jesus_death/1_Quran.html
more evidence in quran:
alislam.org/library/links/Jesus_death/2_Quran.html
evidence from hadith:
alislam.org/library/links/Jesus_death/3_Hadith.htmlI
Dear Shahid,
it is possible to request for invitation if you want to on the ahmadiyya forum!
So you think they will let me in?
Note that they ask the applicants to tell the board a bit about themselves, why do you think that is? So they can keep the dissidents out!
Ahmadiyya is completely against free speech. If you want free speech, you have to leave Ahmadiyya. Simple.
Freedom of speech, definition:
“The right to speak, or otherwise communicate, one’s opinion without fear of harm or prosecution”
I have the right to say what I like, when I like. I have no fear of persecution. I can even convert if I desired, but obviously why would I choose the wrong path.
You do not have freedom of speech. You are bound by the rules of speech dictated by your cult. That is not freedom. Discussion of dissenting opinions is frowned upon.
Qadianis/Ahmadis are allowed freely to discuss their differences with Muslims on Muslim and non-Qadiani forums, but not on alislam.org or MTA.
I invited Mirza Masroor or any of his top resentatives to a debate with any of our top aalims, live on any TV station. The likelihood of this happening is the same as that of the Zionist Entity coming to the negotiating table without preconditions.
It’s revealing that you avoided all of my points.
Man I want invitation to that forum
Why are these forums not available DIRECTLY through the official website… STRANGE.
I believe they’re trialling them for now.
This guy peace is brainwashed. Will you enter into a mini-debate with me on any topic in terms of ahmadiyyat?
Remember, I was an ahmadi for 25 years, from birth. I was never told that MGA made a mistake in terms of his prophethood. I was never told about sir syed khan, I was never told about nick notovitch. I was never told about the split.
When I say I was never told, what I mean is that there wasnt any person “qualified” who could explain these controversial issues.
Also I was never told that MGA initially wrote that Jesus was buried in Galilee, then syria, then india.
There are so many things that they havent explained to you. If you allow me I can admirably explain to you as to what is Ahmadiyyat.
You’re taking as if we haven’t been debating
PEACE: you are misunderstanding me in terms of reading material.
Yes, you are correct, the ahmadiyya movement always encourages its membership to read the Koran, hadith and books of MGA.
What you overlook is that the ahmadiyya movement wants you to read their interpretation of the Koran only. Hadith is another huge topic that I can explain later.
As far as the books of MGA go, the most selling books are:
1. Philosophy of the teachings of Islam
2. jesus in India
3. The Will
These are what ahmadis are constantly told to read. Do you understand?
Alhamdullilah i m an ahmadi and i m allowed to read any translation of the quran i want to and we r always encouraged to read all the books of Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad(as). u guys r just spraeding misinfo.
I have requested for the Invitation to the forum
Dear Peace,
It amazes me that you would read the translation of some verses of the Quran and then interpret them to mean what suits your deviated heretic beliefs.
This methodology is foolish and indeed leads to the kind of delusions that the man whom you believe to be a prophet had.
You reference an ayah of the Quran and then without any understanding or supporting evidence you decide to make bold statements of ignorance and base your belief upon these foolish statements.
Let me ask you this simply.
Did your so called Prophet, who did not speak or understand the language of the greatest revelation from Allah, the Quran, have a better understanding of the Quran than all the previous people before him?
Please bear in mind the previous people I am referring to here would include the Prophet PBUH, his companions and the early generations of Muslims.
If your answer to this is yes then our conversation is already over. If it is no then we will continue Insh’Allah.
And could I also ask Peace what are the Ahmadi views on the birth of Prophet Eesa (AS).
How was he born according to your beliefs i.e. do Ahmadi’s believe in the immaculate conception of our beloved Prophet Eesa (AS)?
Shahid,
firstly I have proved to you that ‘freedom of speach’ exists freely in the community. But refereing to the forum, Here is an extract of the following: “Currently these forums are in development stages therefore registration is with invitation only.” That does not mean that it will stay this way.
Secondly refering to your comment:
“And boy did I laugh when I noticed that they have avoided the subjects of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad and Ahmadiyya.”
The forum just began a second ago
@peace – you can’t fool a former Qadiani who has done his homework.
You are free, yes, free to do what you are told to do! Free to say what you’re told to say. Try dissent or even disagreement and see what happens to your free speech then.
The forum at alislam will never allow Muslims to express their disagreement with the fraud of Qadianism.
Please don’t patronise me. Thank you.
nobody is trying to fool u but unfortunately u r being fooled by urself, do u know about any Muslim who converted to christianity and then they were used to say the same things about islam…..which ur now saying about ahmadiyyat
Shahid has spoken the truth about ahmadiyyat vividly. I admire your determination.
You work means alot to me. If it wasnt for your work I may have sill remained as an ahmadi. It was through your work that I was able totally understand the cult called ahmadiyya, in better words “the business called ahmadiyyat.”
The sons if MGA got rich, and poor ahmadis worked their whole life for nothing.
I appreciate your kind words rationalist.
Ex Ahmadi
Excellent question ( about Issa a.s.’s birth)…. I would like to ask the same to Lahoris as they are also againt ( I think) immaculate conception which is AGAINST QURAN…
ANY LAHORIS OR QADIANI MIRZAI PLEASE???
The LAM believe that Jesus was fathered by a human, Joseph was the father. This is contrary to the writings of MGA sahib.
MGA wrote in Muhabbur Rahman(1903) that it was part of his communities belief that Jesus’ birth was miraculous. Noorudin was strongly opposed to this idea. Noorudin always believed that jesus had a biological father. Noorudin confessed to all of this in some book of his.
Sir Muhammad Zafrullah Khan writes about this event in his book entitled, “noorudin”.
http://www.alislam.org/library/books/HazratMaulviNooruddeen.pdf
Page 100
“The birth of Jesusas without a father had been a
somewhat controversial question. Maulawi Nur-ud-
Dinra had held the view that Jesus had a father. The
Promised Messiahas, in his book Mawahibur Rahman,
announced that it was part of his doctrine that Jesusas
had been born without a father. On reading this
Maulawi Sahibra discarded his view and fell into line
with the view propounded by the Promised Messiahas.
He frankly confessed this change of view in his book
Nur-ud-Din.”
Well free speech should explain why my posts were held last time i tried on this website. Just to let you know that I have seen your show on Iqra.. I was more annoyed by the mannerisms of your host who was contradicting himself every other minute. He also posed as being unaware of Ahmadiyat yet he knew Sh. Raheel. Anyways, spreading hatred through misinformation and lies or just stating the facts. Who can decide?
Lutf – your posts were held because you continued to insult my mother despite repeated requests. I shouldn’t have been surprised that you followed the sunnah of your prophet, but such behaviour is not allowed here. Freedom of speech doesn’t mean freedom to attack my mother. Further, you have your own cable channel and Telegraph blog. What are you worried about?
I note you didn’t comment on my rebuttals of some standard canards about the Ahmadiyya. If my motive was to spread misinformation, why would I not conform to the standard positions? If you had been a gentleman, you would have had the grace to mention that.
All quiet now as the circular from Qadiani Head Quarters in London must have stated in no uncertain terms that no discussion or debate must be entered into..
And like all members of a cult the people will hear and obey
But they are reading. The average is running at 12,000 impressions a month…I urge some of you silent readers to join us. I did it, I assure you, Muslims are not the monsters they have been portrayed to be. Yes, given our size, there are going to be some nutters, as in any community, including Ahmadiyya, but on the whole, we are alhamdulillah a peace-loving and wonderful community of people. As brother Akber used to say to me and other reverts – “welcome to sunshine”
Falsehood abhors light. Cast light into the falsehood and it will vanish.
Shahid,
One feature required of the ummah, is unity and that includes unity of belief. Whether there is no unity of belief, there is no unity and therefore there is no ummah. Obviously, if someone speaks against the Promised messiah(as) or the his khulafa, then obviously he is automatically not in the ummah. As to be an anmadi muslim(i.e. a follower of the promised messiah (as) and his khulafa) you obvioously have to love them and believe in what them. What you are saying: It is like saying, i want to be the follower of the propeht muhammad(saw) but i don’t like him or what he says(god forbid).
So commenting ‘Try dissent or even disagreement and see what happens to your free speech then.’ is out of question. since disagreing or not accepting them will automatically will mean you are not a follower of the promised messiah(as) or his khulafa.
Therefore your conclusion ‘The forum at alislam will never allow Muslims to express their disagreement with the fraud of Qadianism.’
is without any premises and logic.
LOL. You’re kidding right? Let’s have a talk, you and I, when you’re thinking straight and being logical and truthful. Until that time, peace.
You are either Muslim, or you are not. “Ahmadi Muslim” is an oxymoron.
ex ahmadi,
Before ever asking someone about their views, you should tell your own views first.
What is your evidence for this statement ?
ex ahmadi,
“Did your so called Prophet, who did not speak or understand the language of the greatest revelation from Allah, the Quran, have a better understanding of the Quran than all the previous people before him?”
First of all, obviously promised messiah allaihisalam did have understanding of the quran – a lot of it, but not better than that of the holy prophet(saw) – im quite sure.
Now you can continue as you said.
Peace by you saying
‘ obviously promised messiah allaihisalam did have understanding of the quran – a lot of it, but not better than that of the holy prophet(saw)’
you have created an evidence against yourself.
Did your alleged Prophet have complete understanding of the language of revelation and if so please provide evidence for this?
If not, how then do you believe his interpretations on the word of our Creator.
And if you agree with me (as it’s obvious you do) that his understanding of the Quran was not better than that of the greatest man ever to have walked this earth our beloved Prophet PBUH then why would you take the understanding of the weaker person over the better person.
This approach defies logic and demonstrates blind partisanship.
The fact is the Prophet PBUH never understood or interpreted the Quran in the way that your so called Prophet did.
If we both agree that the Prophet PBUH had the best understanding then we should follow ONLY that which he followed and believe ONLY that which he believed and rely ONLY upon those people of knowledge (whoever they may be) who agree with the Prophets PBUH understanding and REJECT those that oppose his understanding.
Do you agree or disagree with this statement of mine ?
ex ahmadi,
you said: “You reference an ayah of the Quran and then without any understanding or supporting evidence you decide to make bold statements of ignorance and base your belief upon these foolish statements.”
Give me an example!
The example is the evidences you gave above. These evidences have been interpreted in a corrupt way and you have just read them on the Qadiani website and believed them blindly.
If this is not the case then please provide me with the supporting evidence that you have used to accept this interpretation.
If you have not looked at any supporting evidence then this is a demonstration of you making a a statement of ignorance and basing your belief upon these foolish interpretations and explanations.
Please tell me how do you understand this ayah of the Quran
“And because of their (the Jews) saying (in boast), ‘We killed the Messiah Jesus, so of Mary, the Messenger of God,’ – but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but the resemblance of Jesus was put over another man (and they killed that man instead), and those who differ therein are full of doubts. They have no certain knowledge, they follow nothing but conjecture. For surely; they killed him not. But Allaah raised him up unto Himself (into the heavens). And God (Allaah) is Ever All-Powerful, All-Wise.”
[Soorah an-Nisaa’ (4):157-158]
I really only have 1 thing to say. Those people who accuse Jamaat Ahmadiyya of being “afraid” to debate should really find a better argument. Do you not realize that in 1974, ALL of your aalims and scholars debated with Hazrat Mirza Nasir Ahmad (rm) and were refuted on every single point?
Don’t believe me? You don’t have to. But go ask your beloved aalims why, to this day, 35 years later, they REFUSE to release the results of that debate! Why? To Protect Ahmadi Muslims? Ha, that’s laughable. The so called Muslim world has left no stone unturned in trying to bring down the Jamaat of the Messih(as) foretold by the Greatest Prophet (sa). Yet, when you supposedly have the debate that can destroy Islam Ahmadiyyat, you hide it. What is there to fear? Truth?
Tell you what, if you can get your so called aalims to release that debate, that is your best shot to defeat Ahmadiyyat. Until and unless you can do that, you are simply agreeing with hiding truth, which is contrary to the practice of any Godly person in history.
You have my humble request. 35 years of history and you haven’t been able to fulfill it. Now won’t be any different either.
The real reason your aalims won’t release the debate transcripts is because they know that in doing so, the truth of Islam Ahmadiyyat will only continue to reign supreme. wasalaam.
Actually, I’ve seen the English transcript of 1974. Mirza Nasir was soundly thrashed. Besides, the statute on secrecy has run out I think? It would be a trivial matter for you to get hold of and release the documents, but you won’t, because for you, whitewash, smokescreens and hubris are more valuable to a cult than the truth of the debate, which would betray your intellectual bankruptcy. If his arguments were so powerful, why have they not been used since? Why didn’t half of Pakistan’s parliament become Qadiani? Seriously, you ought to think for yourself and drop the cult mindset, it will make you free and it will be the best thing for your soul insha’Allah!
Love4All,
Do you seriously believe that?
I mean even if the government is going to hide it, Mirza Nasir could simply say, these were the opponents arguments and these were my arguments. No ones stopped anyone from putting these arguments on the net.
“And because of their (the Jews) saying (in boast), ‘We killed the Messiah Jesus, so of Mary, the Messenger of God,’ – but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but the resemblance of Jesus was put over another man (and they killed that man instead), and those who differ therein are full of doubts. They have no certain knowledge, they follow nothing but conjecture. For surely; they killed him not. But Allaah raised him up unto Himself (into the heavens). And God (Allaah) is Ever All-Powerful, All-Wise.”
[Soorah an-Nisaa’ (4):157-158]
So Muslims do not believe that Jesus has died. Rather, Allaah took him up to Himself and He will send him back down before the Last Day to break the crosses and make clear the message that he was sent with. Jesus will fight the Antichrist (Maseeh ad-Dajjaal) and slay him, then the time that God has appointed for Jesus to die will come.
There are no less than seventy Ahadith that speak of the second coming of Jesus Christ (pbuh). In one of the Ahadith, Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is reported to have said:
“By Him in Whose Hands my soul is, son of Mary (Jesus) will shortly descend amongst you people (Muslims) as a just ruler and will break the cross and kill the pig and abolish the Jizya (a tax taken from the non-Muslims who are in the protection of the Muslim government). Then there will be abundance of money and nobody will accept charitable gifts.” (Sahih Bukhari, Vol. 3. Hadith no. 425)
It should also be borne in mind that Jesus Christ (pbuh), in his second coming will not be coming with any new message or revelation. Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is reported to have said:
“How will you be when the son of Mary (i.e. Jesus) descends amongst you and he will judge people (by the Law of the Qur’an and not by the law of the Gospel)”. (Sahih Bukhari, Vol. 4. Hadith No. 658)
The evidences you have provided dear Peace are generally from erroneous and weak hadith sources.
And the evidences from the sound books of hadith you have provided have typically been misinterpreted by that alleged Prophet of yours who had some understanding of the Quran but not as good as the Prophet Muhammad PBUH, according to you.
So as a rule my advise to everybody is when looking at a translation or interpretation, it’s not just enough that you read it and believe it.
You must read it and ONLY believe it if it conforms to the way that the Prophet PBUH believed in it and understood it. Or how those who came after the Prophet believed it and understood it.
The reason for this is the Prophet PBUH saying
‘The best of mankind is my generation, then those who come after them, then those who come after them. Then there will come a people who will bear witness before taking an oath, and take an oath before bearing witness.’ [Reported by Imaam Ahmad in his Musnad, Al-Bukharee and Muslim]
Therefore if we stick to the understanding on all issues of religion to the understanding of the the first three generations in Islam then we are safe InshAllah.
However if we are going to understand and accept and base our beliefs upon the interpretations of charlatans who came many centuries later and didn’t even fully understand the language of the revelation of Allah then we have nobody but ourselves to blame when we are held accountable by Allah.
May Allah guide us all to the truth and the way of the Prophet PBUH and his companions.
so you believe that God is in heaven, not earth?
and you litteraly believe that jesus will kill the pigs, break crosses?
if you take litteraly the quranic verse, you have to accept that God is only in heaven.
Where do you believe God is ?
Keep wating, your litteral Jesus will never come back. He has died.
So are you saying the ahadith numbering around 70 all confirming this will happen are all lies and your abusive liars interpretation is truth?
Love4All this is the problem with Qadianis.
All they do is rant and talk about some debate they think they won and this somehow proves they are Muslims.
Behave yourself, the best speech is the speech of Allah and the best way is the way of the Prophet Muhammad PBUH. You will never be able to debate against that.
Anything that conforms to this is salvation and anything that goes against this is error.
These debates you refer to are probably nothing more than a discussion between two ignorant parties. One for sure i Know is ignorant and deviated and the other may well have been to.
How one ignorant party can claim victory when it is still in contradiction to the way of the Prophet is beyond me.
My Aalims are those who follow the way of the Prophet and the earlier generations and I can state as a statement of fact that there have been no debates between them and the Qadiani’s.
I invite you Love4All to come and sit with a real person of knowledge and drink from that fountain of knowledge that has so far evaded you.
Stop referring to silly debates. How will you debate with Allah on that day when he asks you why you did not seek the truth when being told you were upon falsehood.
ex-Ahmadi, truly, that is a magnificent reply. MashaAllah.
Shahid/ex-ahmadi:
Ok first of all, don’t get too big on yourself. We don’t need to “prove” we are Muslims – especially not by the likes of any of you folks or the Mullahs of Pakistan.
Shahid – Really? You’ve seen the transcript???? REALLY??? WOW!! That is incredible, you must have some real inside connection because I and several other Ahmadi Muslims have tried writing to get it but have never even been acknowledged.
You have my email address. Please send it to me.
Please, do send me that transcript. Jazakallah.
wasalaam
Btw I really don’t have time keep checking this board. If you have the debate transcript, email it to me. Otherwise I don’t want to bother responding to every individual nuance that the Jamaat has responded to a million times. It’s a waste of my time because it’s been done a million times and it’s a waste of your time because you don’t care to understand, just debate. And again, there’s nothing wrong w/debating, I just don’t care for it right now. So please, don’t mind but simply email me the transcript.
If you are unable to email me the transcript, I understand that perhaps you spoke too soon when you said it was released and will forgive your mistake. Otherwise, I await your email. I’m really excited to read the transcript myself. (Btw, please don’t send “The Memorandum” as that doesn’t include the Mullah’s responses. If you’re saying that Khalifatul Masih III (rm) was ‘thrashed,’ then I would love to read it) Again, I am dead sure you won’t send the transcript because you don’t have it and have never in fact seen it but hopefully you will prove me wrong, iA.
I await your email either way and will not be checking this board again.
wasalaam
LOL. I’m not interested in debate either. As I said on the TV programme, the debate has been done and dusted for a hundred years!
All Qadiani’s and non Qadianis can clearly see that the Qadiani’s deviant beliefs only go as far as the references they have provided, doctored, changed and then changed again, and then changed again.
When we have a serious discussion and ask for elaboration on points they do not have time, as can be seen from the posts above.
Falsehood will always be shown for what it is and the religion of the Prophet PBUH will always reign supreme.
I hold no hatred towards any Qadiani as I can safely say all of them are ignorant as to what they themselves really believe never mind what Islam says.
To rely on a non Arabic speaker to interpret the word of Allah is something only an ignorant individual could do and then be content with.
Allahumustaan.
May Allah guide all of those Qadianis who are are confused.
Ameen!
Shahid,
It is a wonderful answer by Love4All above. He does not want to debate and wants to run away. He knows he has no answers, otherwise who is stopping him copy-pasting the million answers. Well the details he is asking for are available in detail at:
http://www.khatm-e-nubuwwat.org/Books/book.htm
قومی اسمبلی کی کاروائ
If the mirzais might say there is any misreporting, they can print their version. Who in the word is stopping that? If they can publish filthy abuses against prophets of God – why don’t they publish the answers of their khalifa?
Their argument brother, was that if the results had been made public, half the Muslim world would have become Ahmadi. Well if that was the case, why didn’t half of parliament convert?
I saw the transcript at the Khatme Nabuwwah Academy in London. Much of it is in Urdu of course. I saw an English portion and it was very revealing. There is no “special argument”. Why would they keep their powder dry for parliament and not use the same arguments to get people to convert? They really don’t think through their own self-deluding arguments.
i just this website and went through a book :sihns of qayamah and arrival of Maseeh” urdu version. there is a description of dajjal given in that book, just wondering if that dajjal would be a human being and will ride a donkey, doesn’t look convincing in this modern age and u never know wot’s gonna happen in next few dacades when Maseeh will come and fight that Dajjal, this is the time of fighter jets and dorones and he will use a donkey?
I’ve never taken my religion from any Pakistani Mullah and probably feel the same way as many Qadiani’s do about the vast majority of them.
But how does this prove that Qadiani’s are not upon heretical falsehood?
It doesn’t and never will.
Qadiani’s are too caught up in insulting those who insult them to find the real people of knowledge with whom if they only spent two hours would show them the error of their ways.
Ex Ahmedis, well said… Do you know I am a fan already !!!
Akber Ahmed Chudhry discussing on tv against a Ahmadi
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HDY3OZwgp0
The full version will be made available on this site soon insha’Allah
This is hilarious.
Muslims 1, Ahmadis -5.
Great work Akber C, I admire you more than you can imagine.
What books did you author in the ahmadiyyat movement, I probably read them while I was growing up.
Did you start alislam.org????
This Qadiani will probably be kicked out of the cult for being such a poor defender of falsehood.
How lucky he would be.
I pray that Allah makes it so.
Dear Shahid Kamal
I saw your program on the Iqra TV. Like you I am also born in Ahmadiyyah family and migrated from Qadian to Rabwah and now living in London UK for last 25 years. I have registered myself on the forums.alislam.org to start some discussion. I only managed to post initial two posts then they banned me without explaining any reason. This is not a forum but a ‘Tableegh Seminar’, as they will shut you out as soon as you differ on any issue with them. Anyhow I praise your intellectual maturity and cool presentation on the TV debate. I think I have seen you once at Fulham?
Keep up the good work going!
Kashif Nadeem