A Fracture in Belief: Ahmadiyya Exposed at Kingston Mosque

I gave this talk at Kingston Mosque on Saturday, July 25th. This was a fuller version of the talk I gave at the Morden Islamic Centre.

Jazakallah khayr to brother Bilal at the masjid for his support and for making this talk possible and being so hospitable. We had projection facilities, which allowed the audience to more clearly see some of the points that were being made.

Please ask Muslim brothers and sisters to view and comment. I also invite my Ahmadi/Qadiani friends to view and comment. You were once part of the Ummah before your ancestors, like mine, had their iman stolen by a charismatic charlatan. They were not stupid people. They were smart. It is often the case that smarter people get taken in by charlatans more easily than their less intelligent counterparts, because they turn their own intelligence against themselves; witness the high-profile, high-net-worth victims of Bernie Madoff for example.

To some recent commentators who have attempted to post libellous remarks, I urge you to steer clear of ad hominem attacks. These will be summarily deleted. Please note that such behaviour is not in keeping with your mantra of “Love for All, Hatred for None”, a mantra, which insha’Allah, we will help shatter on this blog soon.

(If you’d like to see the full resolution QuickTime movie on which this smaller video is based, you can get it )

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32 thoughts on “A Fracture in Belief: Ahmadiyya Exposed at Kingston Mosque

  1. Pingback: VandeNikhilam Information » Blog Archive » A Fracture in Belief: Ahmadiyya Exposed at Kingston Mosque | Ahmadiyya

  2. Shahid, you are amazing!!!!!

    The muslims owe you greatly, we are lost without you and the rest of the muslims who are exposing ahmadiyyat.

    I listened to the entire audio stream. It was great.

    We can what we will do…..hilarious!!!!

    • Watching this…

      All arguments against Ahmadiyya Jamat have holes in them. I will give a few examples.
      First of all I’dd like to mention that a lot of the arguments can easily be tackled by a conter argument that works along the same lines of your argument.

      1) ‘the constant talk on persecution’ – I would like to ask any muslim who really has a ‘heart’ to think whether they would like to get informed of muslim brothers being unjustly martyred for their faith. Would they not like to even to give a single ear for the shahid for even a few mins? Think! They are like your brothers. Don’t forget that is where the Islamic concept of UNITY comes. Is the unity of muslims just by name such that they would not like get a hearing of a dead brother?

      2) ‘hiding of the term Ahmadi until it is too late’ – can anyone tell whether your christian friends have ever told you that they are catholic, methodist? or even muslims that they are deobandi, ahle hadith etc? I’ve never heard any one of my friend come and tell me straight about their faith. How odd can you be? Faith is not a sort of advertisement!

      3) I’ve seen there are a lot books of large variety – unquestionable. I’m a witness to that fact.

      4) A lot of quotes do not have any refrence so how do we know you are telling the truth. This gives those quotes no weight at all.

      5) One of the worst hole in the overall argument is that Ahmadi’s are not given Ahmadiyya literature. Ok. firstly let me tell you I have a 2/3 set of the roohani khazain at home- (a collection of books of the Promised Messiah (AS)). And I know a lot of people also have Ahmadiyya literature. Secondly your argument is that the Ahmadiyya has hardly been translated into English – and the translations are done cautiously – so Ahmadis are unaware of the truth. BUT are you unaware of the fact that millions of Ahmadi’s in countries like India and Pakistan know urdu and a lot of them can read too. Have they not been exposed to the truths then as you said that some Ahmadis are ‘Smart’. So why did not convert from being an Ahmadi Muslim to some other Islamic sect. Therefore your argument holds no weight. How contradictory.

      6) Top ten thinkers of the world were Muslims? Maybe true but not from the last centary. Firstly you cannot include mulsims before the advent of the Promised Messiah because who knows that they would have accepted Ahmadiyya if they existed today. So we have to think about the last 100 years. Thinking about last hudred years… How many Nobel Prize winners muslim (not inc. peace because that is not intellect)? 3. How many Ahmadi 33%. Who are nobel prize winners of Pakistan? an ahmadi only. Who was the first nobel prize winner? an Ahmadi.

      This was only a small reply. Iwould like to reply to more but don’t have time to continue.

  3. Tell me if you still believe in the second coming of Christ. if you do even if you don’t believe Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahamd to be the prophet whoever you do believe is the second coming of Christ or Imam Mahdi wont he still technically be a prophet ? i rest my case

    • Asalaamu alaikum

      In reference your quote Ehsan, Muslims believe that Christ (AS) will come again however as a Muslim following the shariah and teaching of the Prophet Muhammed (AS). He will not return as a Prophet himself however as a man following the teachings of the Prophet (PBUH) therefore he will not “technically” return as a Prophet,

      walakum asalaam

  4. as-salaam ‘alaykum wa rahmat Allahi wa baraktahu,

    MUCH better presentation than the previous one. You did an EXCELLENT job, especially the part about exposing their Kufr statements.

    Please make a video on YouTube about their statements like “You are to me like my son.”

  5. Dear Shahid,

    This one is even better. I enjoyed your presentation and found it well balanced, precise and very relevant.

    The references that you gave were very important. Good that you used all the quotes from Mirza to prove that Mirza was a blasphemer, a LIAR and a fraud. Just to add on your comments about Muhammedi bagum, ‘ the heavenly bride’ and a fantasy of Mirza.

    ref. alislam.org/books
    Seeratul Mahdi vol. 1 by Mirza Bashir Ahmed MA (son of Mirza ghulam qadiani)
    pdf page no. 118 / 296
    Narration no. 127

    This is a long narration that talks about start of Muhammadi Begum episode. I will not translate all due to its length, but will translate some important points:

    ” Humble one states that Masih Moud’s sister was married to Mirza Muhammed Baig. But Mirza M. Baig died early and our aunt (Mirza’s sister) had to spend rest of her life as a widow. Our aunt used to get revelations/dreams. Masih Moud’s ( Mirza Ghulam) cousins i.e. Mirza Nizam ud Din and Mirza Imam ud Din’s sister Umar-un-Nisa was married to Mirza Muhammed Baig’s younger brother Mirza Ahmed Baig who gave birth to Muhammadi Begum. Mirza Nizam ud Din and Mirza Imam ud Din were worst kind of faithless and atheist in nature. Mirza Ahmed Baig was under their influence and was following their footsteps. Those people were always demanding a heavenly sign from mgaq because they were against / disliked Islamic teachings.

    There was a cousin of Mirza who was lost for a long time and his property was transferred to his wife Imam Bibi. She was sister of Mirza Ahmed Baig. Mirza Ahmed Baig wanted to transfer that property to his son Muhammed baig, brother of Muhammadi bagum. But Imam Bibi could not transfer that propery by law unless mgaq’s consent. Therefore, Mirza Ahmed Baig very humbly and respectfully requested mgaq to sign on the tranfer deed. ”

    – IF YOU READ LETTER WRITTEN BY MIRZA TO AHMED BAIG, MIRZA IS TELLING HIM “I consider you pious and man of faith elder ” which is against their story that Ahmed baig and his family was faithless and against Islamic teachings.

    Another proof of falsehood of Mirza and his followers. PEOPLE OF HIS ERA AND AREA WOULD NEVER GIVE THEIR DAUGHTERS TO ANYONE SO BAD AS DESCRIBED BY MIRZA BASHIR.

    – MIRZA’S OWN SISTER WAS MARRIED INTO THAT “FAITHLESS AND ATHEIST” FAMILY. She was married to Ahmed Baig’s ( Muhammadi’s father) elder brother.

    – MIRZA’S COUSIN (Nizam and Imam din’s sister) WAS MARRIED TO MIRZA AHMED BAIG WHOSE DAUGHTER MIRZA WANTED TO MARRY SO DESPERATELY.

    – IF THEY WERE SO BAD, WHY TWO GIRLS OF MIRZA’S FAMILY WERE GIVEN TO THAT FAMILY?

    – THEY WERE SO BAD AS DESCRIBED AHMEDIS, WHY A “NABI’S” NIKAH WAS PERFORMED IN THE HEAVENS TO THE GIRL OF THAT FAITHLESS FAMILY?

    – WHAT KIND OF PUNISHMENT WAS THAT? ITS A REWARD THAT A NABI MARRYING A FAITHLESS GIRL..IS IT NOT?

    – WHEN THEY “REPENTED” THAT REWARD WAS WITHDRAWN….HOW CAN THIS BE JUSTIFIED?

    TRUTH IS THAT:

    MIRZA TRIED TO BLACKMAIL AHMED BAIG AND WANTED TO MARRY HIS YOUNG GIRL IN EXCHANGE OF SIGNING THE TRANSFER DEED.

    Is this the character of a ‘nabi’?

  6. Mirza had a sister? Are you sure? I have never heard of this before. I thought that he had only 1 brother as well as a twin sister that died shortly after birth.

  7. Rationalist

    Yes indeed, Mirza had an elder sister who was married to Muhammadis uncle. Please read the quote from Seerat ul mahdi given in my above post.

    Qadianis have only a delusion and a blind faith. They remain in this fantasy that they are ‘true muslims’ without reading Mirza’s books.

    Their whole universe is inside ‘qadiani box’ which few venture to go out of….

  8. mirza ghulam ahmad never forbid his followers to pray behind non ahmadis, but his son and 2nd khalifa mirza mahmud announced this fatwa that its illegal to pray behind non ahmadis, so its clear that the mahmudi khilafat section of mirzaiyyat is purely based on innovations by mirza mahmud, and the lahori party hav completely failed in their mission to spread mirzaiyyat, this clearly shows that both parties r wrong and mirza ghulam ahmad was a liar.

    • Think logically!

      I would ask you, would you pray behind a person who rejects the Holy Prophet Muhammad (SAW)? I mean would you pray behind anyone who doesn’t believe in all prophets but one prophet? for example, Prophet Moses! This is the reason why Ahmadi Muslims do not pray behind the Muslims who have failed to recognise the Imam of the age, a prophet of God.

  9. I totally agree with ameer baig. This has been my idea all along.

    The proof that ahmadiyyat is false is in the split. The split proves that ahmadiyyat is a false religion.

  10. Did the mirza ever mention this older sister of his?

    I havent ever read anything about her. Is there only one reference to this older sister?

  11. I would suggest you make a SHORT video on the quote “You are to me like my son.”

    Make it short and to the point (ie, not 10 minutes). I think that’ll create a nice return.

  12. Brother you make summary of this and upload that
    and do make more videos on youtube that ll be great

    same goes for you Farhan 🙂

  13. Qadianis need to do some homework. Brother Shahid’s work is excellent example. Hope it will be a source of inspiration to Ahamdi brothers. We pray Allah give guidance (Inshallah). There may be some good people but if they have not studied Mirzaism, or Islam properly, then they need to do so. We must be very careful in matters of faith and our life in heareafter should not be put at stake.

  14. Jazakallah khair. PLZ KEEP UP THE WORK BRO. My area has been infested by these ppl. Now they are putting out there stalls. We all need to make an effort to preserve the true islam.

  15. This man Shahid is joker and dancing & laughing on the shoulders of ill litrete mullah.

    Carry on but you cannot change or stop humiliation & destruction of these enimies of Allah.

    Can You Joker?

  16. IJKBALUCH

    Can you write anything intelligent? Can u write about a theological issue? Can you argue the ahmadiyya position on the return of Jesus?

    What can you argue, other than you like FATBOYS that cant give speeches like MASROOR. Tell MASROOR to take some speech classes at a local community college or something.

    His speeches SUCK!!

  17. lmao … yall hear about the pakistani coorupt mullah/politician… the one witht he orange turban on his head…… u see him on tv … pk channels… ye he had a life saving heart srugery performed by an ahmadi doctor from America
    IRONY!
    1. He said before that that anyone who socialized with Qadianis is a kaafir
    BUT A QADIANI had his hand on his heart?

    2. They kicked out the brains in 1974 and now they need us back
    shall we return?… Of course not! hahah… were living in inhabitable humane places. Have a nice bombing pakistan. We did a lot to make u and without us u are not much.. just 170 million people but how many with brains exactly??? 2 percent?- and i/u wish u could call that an understatement.

    Btw not all Ahmadis are Qadianis…. some of us were born in other places… do they teach geography at Pakistani non-ahmadi muslim madrassahs?

  18. Sultan and IJK bluchseem to be the follower of this brainy guy.

    Mirza’s Yalash informs him..
    Quote:
    “Babu Ilahi Bukhsh wants to see your menstruation or get information on some filth and impurity but God will show you his rewards, which will continue, and in you there is no menstruation but that child is developing, such a child who is like the Child of Allah.”
    (Tatumma Haqeeqat-ul-Wahi, Roohani Khazain vol. 22 p.581)

    Brainy guys, Enjoy !!!

    Less brainy guys can see the blasphemy and shik of the fraud of a Qadian..

  19. Sultan, the brainy guy,

    I know you will have a ‘convincing’ logic for a man ( or was he !!) called Mirza Ghulam VICKY adiani getting periods… I am convinced too…though I am not as brainy as you, ( I am a Pakistani )

    Read this..
    Seera tul ….. mahdi 😉
    pdf page no. 70 / 296
    Narration no. 82

    Mirza Bashir MA wites:

    ” My mother told me that MIRZA VICKY used to wear GHARARA. Then asked him to stop wering them. Then he started wering usual pygamas. ”

    Hunnn … and brainy people following that joker ..

  20. Shahid

    One has to be programmed right from day one so that one becomes completely blind with no ability to rationally analyse simple straightforward statements.

    mirza says ” The saying of all wise, all knowing ( Allah Tala) in his book that QURAN will be lifted in 1857 means that nobody will abide by it”

    How many qadianis can see a LIE on quran ? any brainy guys??

    THERE IS NO SUCH SAYING IN QURAN ANYWHERE…period.

  21. Could you give me the exact reference of the quotation about mary and jesus being MGA.

    Second, can you also give me material so I can prove that the Minaratul massih was not erected/started in His life??

    Thirdly the three pages of laana’s exact location for me to look up.

    thanks

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